Why JWs should soft-pedal the "Divine Name"

by Open mind 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • undercover
    undercover

    From the Watchtower's own website:

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/na/index.htm

    How Is God's Name Pronounced?

    The truth is, nobody knows for sure how the name of God was originally pronounced. Why not? Well, the first language used in writing the Bible was Hebrew, and when the Hebrew language was written down, the writers wrote only consonants—not vowels. Hence, when the inspired writers wrote God's name, they naturally did the same thing and wrote only the consonants.

    While ancient Hebrew was an everyday spoken language, this presented no problem. The pronunciation of the Name was familiar to the Israelites and when they saw it in writing they supplied the vowels without thinking (just as, for an English reader, the abbreviation "Ltd." represents "Limited" and "bldg." represents "building").

    Two things happened to change this situation. First, a superstitious idea arose among the Jews that it was wrong to say the divine name out loud; so when they came to it in their Bible reading they uttered the Hebrew word 'Adho·nai' ("Sovereign Lord"). Further, as time went by, the ancient Hebrew language itself ceased to be spoken in everyday conversation, and in this way the original Hebrew pronunciation of God's name was eventually forgotten.

    In order to ensure that the pronunciation of the Hebrew language as a whole would not be lost, Jewish scholars of the second half of the first millennium C.E. invented a system of points to represent the missing vowels, and they placed these around the consonants in the Hebrew Bible. Thus, both vowels and consonants were written down, and the pronunciation as it was at that time was preserved.

    When it came to God's name, instead of putting the proper vowel signs around it, in most cases they put other vowel signs to remind the reader that he should say 'Adho·nai'. From this came the spelling Iehouah, and, eventually, Jehovah became the accepted pronunciation of the divine name in English. This retains the essential elements of God's name from the Hebrew original.

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    reniaa:

    "If God wanted us to use his name he wouldn't have allowed it to be replaced by Lord"

    Well, that is in fact what he HAS allowed with the name Jehovah. Jehovah is a latinized, then anglicized version of the Hebrew word for Lord: 'Adho·nai' .

    "Jehovah" doesn't come from the tetragramatton. It comes from "Lord".

    But in actual day-to-day practice JWs ACT like they have the inside scoop on what God wants to be called, when it's really just a sad self-delusion based on Rutherford's effective use of "us vs. them" Theology.

    Maybe this quote from Leolaia about the Divine Name brochure will make my point better:

    The brochure should be titled, "The Divine Name, The Consonants of Which Will Endure Yet Be Mispronounced Forever." :))

    Then there was this that you mentioned:

    3/ Why allow the witnesses to use it as an identifying mark? if you have made sure it wasn't used by jews in the past? Does not correctly pronouncing it cancel it out so they can use it? if so wouldn't that also cancel nearly all the other names in the bible because there no way any are correctly pronounced because we are talking with English language and verbal expressions when trying to pronounce them.

    That just made my head hurt. If you want to clarify it a bit I'll give it a go, but for now you get a "W" on Clear & Understandable. Just a good-natured rib there.

    Hey, good news! The Theocratic Ministry School doesn't make you sit there and listen to a dweeb like me tell you what he didn't like about your talk anymore.

    OM

  • sinis
    sinis

    You mean the Jehovah the Gnostics wrote of as ialdaboath?

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    LOL @ Sinis.

    ialdaboath

    I'm sure the permutations are infinite.

    OM

  • sinis
    sinis

    Yes the permutations may be infinite but the results are all the same - a flaming asshole God!!! Thus why pedal the name of a being who means man harm, and treated his "chosen" people like whale shit?

    That is almost akin to a Jew running around pimping Adolf Hitler at every chance he gets - it illogical, and damaging.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Gods name is Allah. If it isn't, why did God allow the millions of Muslims to use Allah?

    Sirona

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    For sinis:

    Gradualism my friend. Gradualism.

    OM

  • BONEZZ
    BONEZZ

    Openmind...

    she'll be back as soon as she can find more Slobbering Body stuff she can cut and paste. The fact of the matter is, if I were a Dubbie I'd be damn sure that the pronounciation was correct before i used it...afterall the Guy is known for whacking kids who poke fun of the hair-challenged.

    Now for my Andy Rooney impression...Have you ever noticed that Dubs really can't think logically on their own...they have to parrot something from Mother. Didja ever wonder why...maybe it's because they're in a cult...shhh don't tell 'em.

    -BONEZZ

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Hi open mind

    sorry about that last sentence I was getting sleepy and lol I'm not sure I can make sense of it myself this morning hehe :)

    How important is pronounciation?

    consider the following...

    The Nazarene Way of Essenic Studies
    Yeshua or Jesus?
    The Mis-Transliteration of a Greek Mis-Transliteration

    http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua_jesus_real_name.htm

    What we pronounce now is the latinised form of jesus certainly not the original, so bonezz your arguement of if we can't pronouce it correctly we shouldn't at all is not a valid one or we would have to apply it to jesus too and change all our bibles etc to the original pronouciation.

    How important are vowels? we have 21 consonants in english language and 5 vowels to pad out the words the hebrews written language shows you don't need vowels to know the word, THS S TH WY TH HBRW PPL WRT BCK THN, means "this is the way Hebrew people wrote back then," so they could easily pronounce words without vowels.

    So YHWH is God's name there is no getting away from that and just because someone used the same vowels which are in Adonai doesn't make it Adonai, it just made it Jehovah because vowels are there for the pronounciation than the actual word as you can see from my example above.

    So that is all the facts pertaining to JHWH, jehovah, Yahweh I guess in the end we all have to decide if using the english version of God's name Jehovah is better than a totally different word Lord, that can in the end change the whole meaning of a scripture?

    4 Trust the LORD always, because the LORD, the LORD alone, is an everlasting rock.

    and some cases make the scripture sound like the author had a stutter.

    but in other cases just make me sad by it's loss

    18 That they may ( A ) know that ( B ) You alone, whose name is the LORD,
    Are the ( C ) Most High over all the earth.

    the whole richness of this scripture is lost by the removal of God's name and the truth as well because in the end how important is a name?

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Reniaa,

    I understand the points you've made. Many other readers on this site have made the same points ourselves hundreds of times over when we were full-fledged JWs.

    This is getting wearysome for me and maybe for you too. How about if we see if we can reach either a consensus or an impasse on just one small aspect of this discussion.

    Does the way God has allowed his name to be handled seem just a wee bit sloppy to you?

    ************************************

    MEMO from the desk of God.

    "Dear humans,

    Here's 4 consonants. They're very important. Dont' use them in vain. Hold them sacred. Sanctify them.

    But do what you feel like with the vowels.

    I'm serious mankind. I will allow milleniums to pass and not say a peep about how to say my name. Even in the Last Days when I'm going to directly choose one tiny Christian sect as my ONE CHANNEL of life & death communication with humans, I still won't say anything about how to pronounce my name. I'll have no problem giving you all kinds of "new light" on everything from aluminum cookware to oral sex, but as for my name? Nada.

    But don't forget!

    My name is VERY IMPORTANT."

    **************************************************

    To me this makes no sense. And is why if I was promoting the JWs and the Bible I would not shout and wave about the Divine Name issue like it's something to be proud of. It's a weak/embarrasing point, not a strong point, IMO.

    If I was trying to convince a thinking person who was questioning me along these lines, I'd probably say, 'Well it may not make much sense to you, but God has allowed it to happen this way, so we just do the best we can with what we have'. But the JWs try turning this issue into a strong selling point for their religion. It's not. IMO.

    Could you humor me and try to address the question I asked above?

    Does the way God has allowed his "4 consonants" to be handled seem just a wee bit sloppy to you?

    OM

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