Why JWs should soft-pedal the "Divine Name"

by Open mind 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

sspo

If the use of God's name was so important and the identifying mark of a true christian, why is it that Jesus never used it?
Jw's use it in every sentence but Jesus talked about his Father, prayed "our Father in the heaven", when he was dying on the cross or stake, he called on his Father and not on Jehovah.
Look at all the writers in the New Testament, how many of them used God's name in their writing as often as the Watchtower does?
By the divine providence the book of Acts says that early followers of Christ were to be called Christians and not Jehovah's Witnesses.
If the Creator could creat the billions of galaxies, he could have it made clear to us if his name was truly critical for his approval.
reniaa

Does the way God has allowed his "4 consonants" to be handled seem just a wee bit sloppy to you?
hmmm I did sort of address it, I think it's important we have extremely old manuscripts of the bible to refer too, so men's own additions/subtractions can be seen and dealt with like the scripture added by overzealous catholics to support the trinity in one of the john books i think.
Maybe the simple point is... once written God is messing with his own "allowing man free-will" rule to directly influence what man then does to it! Only making sure as I said above we have the originals to use as cross references and then upto us how we use that knowledge.
Or alternatively he did allow his name to be obscured but not lost but now that begs the question why allow a Christian religion to use his name in this time? Is this sloppiness or maybe something done with a deliberate reason?
carla

Isn't it ironic when jw's or jw sympathizers trash Catholics on a regular basis then insist the world use the Catholic made up name for God? Renaii, research for you- check out a Catholic monk by the name of Martini, he's the one who made up the word jehovah around 1270. Have you thanked your nearest Catholic lately for such a bountiful spiritual banquet? do you call your father by his first name? why are there no records whatsoever that indicate jehovah was ever used by the first century Christians? let me guess, satan is to blame right? and the thousands of manuscripts that did survive have all been tampered with and yes! God would allow His book to be changed just so the wt could test them later?
reniaa

And I am grateful to them :) they were the main Christian faith for a long time! having total control over bible access, It's good we as average people have access to the bible now, not something catholic clergy wanted and also did not allow for hundreds of years.
Yes I was aware "Jehovah" was originally from a catholic monk who decided which vowels to use, it's the oldest english version of God's name much the same way Jesus is the oldest English version of Jesus which also is a lot different from it's original prounouciation.
jwfacts
Good topic. It is interesting that God did not think it important enough to reveal his name until the time of Moses.

(Exodus 6:2-3) . . .And God went on to speak to Moses and to say to him: "I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.
And then Jesus no longer felt it necessary to use Jehovah as there is no record of Jehovah in the New Testament.
Reniaa, you keep mentioning how important the name is, yet still have not really researched it, as much of what you say is inaccurate. There is a comprehensive summary at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/Jehovah.htm For instance you say that each instance of Jehovah in the NT is an OT quote. This is what the Watchtower leads people to believe. In fact an examination of the 237 inclusions reveals the following;
- Only 76 times is Jehovah included based on a direct Hebrew quote
- In 78 other instances the scriptures are not quotes, but reference Hebrew passages discussing Jehovah
- 83 times the New World Translation has included Jehovah with no support from the Hebrew Scriptures
Furthermore, if you believe that the word Jehovah has disappeared without trace from the NT, then how can you have faith in any of the Bible. If Jehovah cannot protect the integrity of the Bible regarding his own name, what other passages was he unable to prevent from being changed or left out?
Terry

Two points.
Mankind, in the view of the Supreme Being (according to scripture) is weak, corrupt, imperfect, sinful and deserving of death. This is Jehovah's opinion based on his perfect standards.
Can we agree on that?
If so, let us proceed...
Does it make sense for the Supreme Being to crave the approval of such creatures? Does it make sense to desire honor from such creatures?
Jehovah placed a curse on humanity. He let death dog their footsteps for all of history. He destroyed many millions himself and commanded the destruction of others. This should clearly demonstrate that Jehovah exercises his Soverignty aplenty!
This is my first point: It is illogical for God (by whatever name tag) to see any merit in the use of his name by wretched sinners who cannot manage to control their own lives long enough to escape corrupting his name.
Second point...
The name (tetragrammaton letters) was holy to the Jews for the precise reason the DID NOT UTTER IT! Holy means: set apart. It was not superstition which prevented them from bandying it about like a name brand T-shirt for a favorite rock band. It was the fear of God stemming from the Ten Commandments injunction against PROFANING the name through ill use.
Meaning what? The Jews did the only thing they could logically do to prevent the profanation of god's special name. The did the OPPOSITE of what Jehovah's Witnesses do!! They never publicly uttered the name in connection with any of their weak, sinful, imperfect and corrupt activitities! The name represented only the holiest of activity. Even today, Jews will not type the word: god. They prefer g*d. If this isn't respect, it will do until respect comes along.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not HONOR the name (however it is pronounced) because they constantly connect this special BRAND with false prophecy, policies which must be changed and corrected and dubious public and private activities which make Jehovah appear to be a cult leader!
When Pastor Russell connected Jehovah with his false prophecies and Pyramid measurement crackpot schemes DID HE BRING HONOR ON GOD'S NAME? No. He brought ill-repute.
Did Judge Rutherford bring honor and glory to Jehovah's name when he had his house to house publishers spread the word that the ancient men of worthiness (David, Abraham, etc.) would return and live in the Beth Sarim mansion in 1925? No. He brought ridicule. (I made an ass of myself). He also made an ass of Jehovah!.
Did the Watchtower Society bring honor, glory and sanctity to Jehovah's name by sending out the false message that 1975 would usher in the 1,000 year reign of Christ (and, logically: Armageddon)? No. It brought disillusionment, ridicule, shame and confusion.
You see the difference?
The ancient JEWS refused to dishonor Jehovah, by keeping the name away from carnal, ill-considered human folly they showed respect and fear of God's reputation.
What does all this prove?
Jehovah's Witnesses don't even understand why the pronunciation has been lost to humanity in the first place!!
JEHOVAH (or whomever/however) DOES NOT WANT HIS NAME ILL-USED!
If there is only one, true god there really is no logical need to separate that Supreme deity from all other phoney, illusory and wicked concoctions of the human imagination.
Jehovah's Witnesses act like god is a Chinese fellow in a crowd who needs a big yellow polka-dot T-shirt to distinguish him from the rest.
Open mind

reniaa said:

"... God is messing with his own "allowing man free-will" rule to directly influence what man then does to it!"

I'm not exactly sure what "rule" you're referring to. For the vast majority of human history, you're right, God's approach has been hands off. But according to the Bible there have been multiple instances where God has directly intervened in human affairs, thus thwarting or redirecting people's free will.

(Expulsion from Eden, Tower of Babel, global flood, 10 plagues, splitting red sea, etc.)

For the purposes of this discussion though how about looking at Jesus' baptism in the Jordan? What did God do?

He spoke directly from heaven in a voice humans could hear & understand and said 'This is my son the beloved. I have approved of him.'

He did the same thing with Moses and the burning bush. So it's not like there's no precedent for the occasional direct divine intervention.

Now for something as SUPER IMPORTANT as the ACTUAL Divine Name, I'd have expected some sort of heads up in 6000 years. So far, not a peep.

reniaa also said:

"but now that begs the question why allow a Christian religion to use his name in this time?"

So the fact that God hasn't struck down the JWs with lightning for not getting the pronunciation right means He APPROVES and BLESSES the use of the name "Jehovah"?

Some Christian churches use Yahweh. He "allows" that too. For that matter, some churches say God's name is "Satan" and God is "allowing" that as well. I don't think this point holds much water, IMO.

Thanks for sticking with this thread though. I'm sure it's not easy being just about the only JW apologist around here as of late.

Take care,

OM
oompa

just a tag
Terry

why allow a Christian religion to use his name in this time? Is this sloppiness or maybe something done with a deliberate reason?
God always allows the wicked enough rope to hang themselves!
Jehovah's Witnesses have had plenty of rope with misusing their Authorization from Jehovah in pronouncing dates from Him which proved embarassingly false!
The JW's speak IN HIS NAME and what they speak doesn't come true....or...has to be modified...changed...altered...reversed or left off the subsequent compilation CD :)
Lord, Lord did we not ....blah blah blah...in your name?
Get away from me you workers of iniquity....I NEVER KNEW YOU!
OnTheWayOut

I appreciate your point isaac and the 130 something times Jws have put jehovah into the Nt they have to be accountable for but I would uphold them if they putting it in a scripture which is a direct quote from an OT one using the tetragrammeton. how can it be more correct not to use it if your quoting from a scripture that does use it?
I gotta jump in here. It can be "more correct not to use it if your quoting from a scripture that does use it"
if you are trying to accurately translate what was written.
If every shred of evidence points to the NT writers NOT using "Jehovah" (or a tetragrammaton or some Greek
equivalent) then those who are sure the Bible is God's inspired Word should be sure that God had a reason.
They should not take it upon themselves to "restore" something to the NT because it quotes the OT.
If God had it passed down without his name in it, don't monkey with it.

Why JWs should soft-pedal the "Divine Name"

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