Nvr, thank you for sharing your feelings and experiences. You stated them in a very humble way. You did it without calling people, who don't find themselves at the same place as you, idiots or crazy. I'm sure others will appreciate your approach.
Why I post about atheism
by nvrgnbk 64 Replies latest jw friends
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cognizant dissident
Atheism is Faith that there is no God, and that it's OK, one is not required
I disagree with this definition of Athiesm. I am an atheist and I definitely do not have "faith that there is no god". I also do not have "faith that there is a god". It is obviously true that nature/JWD abhors a vacuum. The concept of non-believing in either of these positions is beyond the ability of some to comprehend.
For instance, how many can understand the distinction between these two sentences? I believe "there is no god". I do not believe "there is a god".
Most atheists on JWD that I have read have posted the latter statement and most theists on JWD that I have read have interpreted their words as the first statement.
Cog
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Galileo
Well put, cog. I say this as often as I can when discussing atheism. In fact, I said it in my first post in this thread:
Do I believe there is proof that god doesn't exist? Of course not. No one sane does. Granting that, if it makes you more comfortable, you may call me an agnostic. But I am agnostic to god only in the same respect that I am agnostic to fairies in my back yard that only materialize when no one is watching. Can I disprove that? No. Do I think it likely...
For some reason, many believers don't like to acknowledge this fact. I think because it is much easier to set up the straw man that atheists believe they can prove that there is no god. This is of course ridiculous, and they can proceed to tear apart how ridiculous it is to believe you can prove a negative, which of course no reasonable atheist has ever claimed to be able to do.
The fact is that a rational person requires evidence for belief. The lack of evidence for god leads to a lack of belief in god. A lack of belief in god is atheism. Period.
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Blueblades
NVR. I mirror your sentiments. You gave careful consideration to both believers and non-believers.
This kind of topic or subject brings out an emotional appeal from either side. Some have very sensitive feelings for belief and for non-belief.
You have carefully walked the tight-rope and kept your balance as to why you post about atheism.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on a very complex topic.
Blueblades
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Galileo
I see no point in the entire debate to be honest.
Jeff, if everyone were, as you appear to be, agnostic, then I would be inclined to agree with you. But as long as there are parents that would rather their children die then give their children a blood transfusion because they believe this is god's will, then there is a point. As long as their are those that believe flying a packed airliner into a building will grant them the blessings of Allah, there is a point. As long as Ben Stein makes propagandistic movies to convince educators to teach myths instead of science, there is a point. I would be thrilled if the debate were only between whether it is more rational to call yourself an atheist or an agnostic, which is largely an argument of semantics. That is not the debate society is having.
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Highlander
Not true!!! Atheism is Faith that there is no God, and that it's OK, one is not required.
Huh? I also don't believe in the tooth fairy. Does it take faith on my part to NOT believe in a tooth fairy? By definition, faith is not directed towards something that a person does not believe in.
Please keep in mind that many athiests actually hope that there is a god or higher power/purpose in our world. How is it that I supposedly have faith that god doesn't exist, yet hope that a god does exist?
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trevor
AK -Jeff
Enjoyed your posts too. We seem to have reached a similar shore.
Fadeout
Most people cannot take uncertainty for even a short time, they will transition hurriedly directly from one nonsensical belief to another... like a Catholic becoming a JW or a JW becoming born-again.
This is what we find and most people do leap out of the frying pan into the fire rather than live with uncertainty.
I too sought certainty for many years after losing my faith but found no belief system that added up. I am now in a very comfortable place called open minded and aware, enjoying the new lessons and understanding that each day brings. This is not a lukewarm position but an open hearted way of living.
Many of societies prejudices come from certain religious beliefs. Once we take up an entrenched position and claim we have faith of certainty, we have to defend that position and in doing so we close our mind new discoveries that don't fit in into our the certainty that we cling to.
trevor
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Fadeout
Trevor: Many of societies prejudices come from certain religious beliefs. Once we take up an entrenched position and claim we have faith of certainty, we have to defend that position and in doing so we close our mind new discoveries that don't fit in into our the certainty that we cling to.
Exactly. I don't see what good can come from voluntarily closing one's mind, refusing learning opportunities, willfully stagnating, needlessly taking offense, making life a living hell for yourself and others. And for what? The need to be right? Not worth it.
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catbert
My conversations with individuals who have grown up with the internet have shown me that they are more skeptical about religion than my generation.
As we get older, it becomes less important what we think since the younger generation will shape the future.
I see a rising tide of skepticism brought on by free and open exchange of information. -
dawg
These kind of comments are what make me wonder what the hell is wrong with people.
"you stated them in a very humble way. You did it without calling people, who don't find themselves at the same place as you, idiots or crazy. I'm sure others will appreciate your approach".
Everyone has a different approach to any problem, whenever I've called someone crazy, idiots, or anything else, I've given reasons for the use of such words... if I were to go off the wall like I've seen almost all believers do here on this site, and start quoting the words of an already dis-proven God like Thor, who is the same as the the Christian God Jesus who has likewise been discredited on so many levels as to at least cast doubt in his claims for divinity, then all you Christians would jump on that like a snake attacking a mouse.
I'm not an atheist, but logical conversations can't be had with loons making assertions about Christ in a discussion where proven facts are being asserted. The Christ God can't be proven as fact, and making statements about his divinity as if it's is a fact that has been proven is a damn stupid thing to do. I gave my reasons for making this assertion, but as custom for all small minded people, my character was attacked.
If the one making a premise defines why they say something even when that statement is about character, then the ones confronting that person has to give reasons why what he's saying isn't true to prove their point if the conversation is going to remain logical. You that defend Christians for whatever reasons do not do that, you get pissed when facts are presented that clearly show foolish behavior is being pointed out. I remember my "Hugh Hefner is God" post, where I was only joking yet was viciously attacked for making those statements, it was a shitty joke, and I was called out for it... probably a good thing, I've not made that statement since... but that was just a joke... Christin loons actually think their foolish comments about the Christ makes perfect sense. I see nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade...
Sorry if it pisses off believers to have their foolish comments called out, but if I made dumb statements that couldn't be backed up by known facts then everyone on this site would call me out for it, as well they should. They'd be doing me a favor, because making stupid assertions that lack reasonable facts backing them makes the one saying such things look like an idiot. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
So fire away, I'm sure you can find a mis-spelled word or something in this statement to attack while you completely miss the point of this premise... and that's what makes many of you so damned illogical... I've said time and again, you can't talk reason with someone unreasonable.