by snowbird 193 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
snowbird - and I believe that there is nothing wrong believing the way you do. Each of us has our own journey to walk, regardless of the path we all eventually will arrive at our destination.
I personally do believe in God. The bible for me is a very spiritual book, not to be taking literally - it makes more sense to me that way, but that is my way, my path.
Does this signal the end of your participation in your thread, having not been able to address why humanity's dying (like every other living thing on the planet) can in any way be used to support the bible/God on the basis that the writer wrote that God said it would happen?
Eyes Open,
I started this thread because at 3 a.m. on 5-20-08, I was wide awake thinking about life and death.
I was thinking about the fact that death has been happening for eons and yet we haven't gotten used to it, that even though we may try to avoid even thinking about it, death is inevitable for all of us.
I thought I made it clear from the outset, my premise is that if God wasn't able to enforce His decree that ALL would die, some (especially the rich, wily, crafty) would be able to wiggle out of death's clutches.
That is ONE of the reasons why I'm so impressed with the God of the Bible. He states what is going to happen - and it happens.
WE ALL DIE. I see no circular reasoning, a priori, confirmation bias, or anything else in that statement.
Sylvia
And what happens when scientists are able to conquer death, what will be your proof then? I am sure you will do just like the JW's do when things change for them. They have to believe, just like you have to believe, so they spin it to make it fit. From what you have said, you have always believed, your brain is wired that way. It doesn't make anything you believe true. It's just true to you. It could just be a delusion.
I am not wired that way, never have been, even though I tried to believe for most of my life.
And what happens when scientists are able to conquer death, what will be your proof then?
Conquer death, and then we'll talk.
BTS
That is ONE of the reasons why I'm so impressed with the God of the Bible. He states what is going to happen - and it happens.
WE ALL DIE.
You chose to ignore my question. I asked what make the bible, or the God of the bible so special when there are LOTS of other religious writings which state the surety of death for all.
Am I to assume that the Egyptian deities are on the same level as your god? They inspired the "book of the dead" as its commonly known.
The Koran also has a fair bit to say about death too. Does this mean that Allah is the true god?
etc.
?
Sirona
I was thinking about the fact that death has been happening for eons and yet we haven't gotten used to it, that even though we may try to avoid even thinking about it, death is inevitable for all of us.
Of course "we" haven't gotten used to it because "we" only die once after, hopefully, living 80 years or so. I don't try to avoid thinking about it. I know it's going to happen; that doesn't mean I need to spend what life I do have left fearing it.
I thought I made it clear from the outset, my premise is that if God wasn't able to enforce His decree that ALL would die, some (especially the rich, wily, crafty) would be able to wiggle out of death's clutches.
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."
As well as telling Adam that he would die, he also told him he would have to work very hard for his food. Some (especially the rich, wily, crafty) have wiggled out of this decree. Does this, by your method of reasoning, mean that God was unable to enforce this statement?
That is ONE of the reasons why I'm so impressed with the God of the Bible. He states what is going to happen - and it happens.
Do you have any examples of specific, non-ambiguous things that God has said will happen and that have happened that are not explainable by the writers of the literature involved already having common knowledge that would allow for the statements to be explained as common sense?
WE ALL DIE. I see no circular reasoning, a priori, confirmation bias, or anything else in that statement.
you're misrepresenting the subject under consideration. We're not discussing whether we all die or not; we're discussing whether people writing down what God supposedly said about it and it happening, and any potential reasons for belief thereof.
Are you suggesting that the fact that we all die, and that the God of the bible said this would happen, is a reason for faith in the said book and God?I am stating that this is one of my reasons for such.
This is the formal fallacy known as affirming the consequent. You're affirming the consequent because you want to confirm what you already believe (confirmation bias).
Another person could make an equally invalid argument by saying "If life is a biochemical process, we would expect death due to limitations imposed by the laws of thermodynamics. We all die. Therefore, life is a biochemical process."
I was thinking about the fact that death has been happening for eons and yet we haven't gotten used to it, that even though we may try to avoid even thinking about it, death is inevitable for all of us.
I thought I made it clear from the outset, my premise is that if God wasn't able to enforce His decree that ALL would die, some (especially the rich, wily, crafty) would be able to wiggle out of death's clutches.
During that truly heinous period of Church dominance known as the INQUISITION there were Witch trials.
There were ways the Church, in her infinite logic and fairness, allowed those accused to PROVE they were not a witch.
One of such ways was to thrust the accused's hands in boiling water. Here was the reasoning:
If you were a Witch, God would allow your hand to blister. But, if you were innocent, God would surely prevent by miraculous interventions any harm to come to you.
Now, you may not see any commensurable logic between your (above) statement proposition and the Witch trial logic. But, I do!
Think about it.
Burn, I know you're a believer, but it's not like you to be that close minded.
Good point Terry!
Let me make this crystal clear to all concerned.
I'm not arguing for or against anything. I'm simply bringing my opinion - unpopular though it may be - to the table as the rest of you have no problem doing.
Sirona, when the other gods can state in unequivocal terms, as the God of the Bible has, that they're the source of all creation, then I will address your question.
Eyes Open, the decree that the earth was cursed on account of Adam's sin was eventually repealed during the days of Noah. And, we all work hard for our living, physically or mentally.
StartingOver, when and if scientists conquer death, I will be one of the first to applaud.
Terry, do you know of anyone who has cheated death?
Sylvia
Burn, I know you're a believer, but it's not like you to be that close minded.
I don't think I was being closed minded StartingOver, I was just pointing out that the conquest of death, in the manner you described, was not a foregone conclusion. Hence, it is not a good point to use.
BTS
