the reason why i ask is because whenever u are DF and u are trying to get reinstated they are always tellling u that u have to produce fruits befitting repentenace like attending the meetings,etc. they always make it seem that since they are gods spirit-directed org. that he will know whether or not if a person is repentent. i think the reality is that the elders decide whether or not u show repentence not god. and its up to them to determine whether u should be reinstated not god. i know of a case of a girl in my former congregation who has been DF 3 or 4 times (in fact she is Df now) who was going to the meeting. she never missed one and everyone including the elders thought she was so repentent. well guess what? she was still doing all the things she was doing when she got DF. she hadnt really changed at all. the elders felt she showed repentence and reinstated her. my question is how are they able to determine that? can they read peoples hearts. this girl was faking repentence the entire time she was trying to get reinstated. i know the elders in my former congregation DF who they wanted and reinstated who they wanted. i know of many cases where some were struggling with alcholism like my mom and they basically treated her as if she was a criminial and took all her privileges away like pioneering and she had only fallen off the wagon that one time. she never was the same. she started going downhill ever since.they thought she could just get over her problem i guess. what i dont get is there can be 2 people doing the same thing like fornicating,committing adultery, smoking or whatever and they get DF. if both are trying to get reinstated one may get reinstated in 6 months and the other may be 1 year. what gives? how do they know if a person is truly repentant and not faking it just to get reinstated. thats why i dont understand the DF arrangement. supposely its to keep the congregation "clean". really can an imperfect man, elder in this case tell whether or not someone is involved in wrongdoing? what determines the length of time that a person has to serve in order to get reinstated? and how do they know people
How do the elders know if you are truly repentent?
by jetery 46 Replies latest jw experiences
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*summer*
"how do they know if a person is truly repentant"
pardon my sarcasm...but from what i gather, JWs can read minds and hearts!!! -
momzcrazy
They don't and never will. Anyone can put on a good show of meetings, singing and crying during the JC meeting. And even if you are truly repentant, like I was, you can still get DF'd. I was mortified by the questions they were asking with my dad in the room. I clammed up in embarassment and they took it as unrepentant.
It just matters who your JC elders are and how good of an actor you are.
momz
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str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up
They don't
Its flawed
Hence why it is such an evil organisation.
Embrace the Df'ed status and instead rejoice in the freedom it affords you. Because you can see JW for what they really are.
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GoddessRachel
I have known people personally who were doing just what you described, living a lie, faking repentence. And sure enough, they got reinstated pretty quickly.
The flip side of that is those of us who did everything the elders told us to do, and knew in our hearts we were repentent, but the elders still refused to let us back in. Because we were honest, revealing our faults. We would have been better off by lying to them.
That's how I know they can't read hearts, they are not God's channel, they are just men. That's it. (And if you are still not sure about this fact, I challenge you to test it out by lying to them in a JC, and see if they can tell. They can't. God's not there with them.)
Peace,
Rachel
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wings
They have a spiritual authority.....a force so to speak....
Of course it is not nearly as powerful as the jedi force I experience here on JWD.....still you have to give them an "E" for exausted effort. They are limited.
wings
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Quandry
Many times it seems that they do not care if you are repentant or not....they have power.....they want to exercise it and show just what they can do to you. They sometimes are spiritual bullies if they want to be....
They certainly were to my teen daughter who only did normal "teen things" and not fornication. They chose to humiliate and berate her, calling her a liar.
They told her "You are disfellowshipped and if you are still disfellowshipped when Armageddon comes you can take some comfort in knowing that Jehovah can read hearts."
Loving shepherds, huh?
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*summer*
btw...my reply about JWs reading hearts and minds was "sarcastic"
seems as if some interpreted it as serious. -
Fisherman
They don't. Only Jehovah can read the the heart. But, policy is that it is Better to err on the side of mercy. If you confess usually that may be taken as evidence of godly repentance but not if you confess after you are snagged.
Bottom line is elders do not know,
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primitivegenius
the watchtower bible and tract society has nothing to do with god or his holy spirit. they kick you out for anything regardless of repentance. if the elders dont like you........ your gone,Jesus himself could come down from heaven and testify on your behalf and it wouldnt make the least little bit of difference in their decisions.
i know several people who upon doing something wrong, praying for forgiveness..... and going straight to the elders and confessing...... they got DF immediately because they werent the "IN" people in the cong. now god forgave them the instant they prayed to him...... cause he could see their hearts.... so already being forgiven by him they go and plead before men........... and because they didnt have money or influence in the congregation, those elders chose to throw them out.... knowing emotional states..... knowing that some of them had NO WHERE else to turn but the cong(haveing cut off all their associations except with witneses per witness standard operating procedure)
bottom line..... if the elders want something from you, or like you or your family, or hate you or your family.... thats what determines whether you are truely repentant in their eyes. you can have been dfed every other year for the past decade and some bodies will let you come back in, and others you could have never done anything that would get you introuble with them and they wont accept that your tears are real...... while the other person who is a professional repeat offenders tears are accepted without question.
they dont tell if your truely repentant...... they dont care, there is no holy spirit there to guide them. again..... THEY DONT CARE. if you are driven over the brink by being cut off from ALL your spiritual association while being DFed........... and you become suicideal............. cant blame them...... only yourself........ pray harder and do more......... thats all the advice they will offer you before deleteing you. cold hearted bastards.
on that positive note........ they like me........ i could go back right now..... smile....... and poof i would be an elder in a year.......... but unlike them............. im NOT FAKE. i see the hypocracy inside and refuse to be a party to it. get out of her lest ye share in her sins and all that.