How do the elders know if you are truly repentent?

by jetery 46 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  she was still doing all the things she was doing when she got DF. she hadnt really changed at all. the elders felt she showed repentence and reinstated her. my question is how are they able to determine that?

  They don't have any spiritual guidance. Their guidance is their elders' book and their
  own opinions. If she said she was repentant, and they were satisfied that they guilted
  her into doing all the meetings, they reinstate her.

  struggling with alcholism .... they basically treated her as if she was a criminal and took all her privileges away like pioneering

  They look for an easier path than actually regularly meeting with and helping her.
  Not all of them do that, but tons do. They are not really trained counselors to
  deal with marital problems or addictions or depressions or anything beyond promoting
  WT doctrines. Take a look at any counsel EVER offered. It boils down to them saying
  some or all of the following:
  Pray more.
  Attend more meetings.
  Read more (NWT and WT materials).
  Go out in field service more.
  Associate with JW's only (those that do more already).

  or

  Do things outside of WT-related things LESS, such as work or play or school.

  what i dont get is there can be 2 people doing the same thing like fornicating,committing adultery, smoking or whatever and they get DF. if both are trying to get reinstated one may get reinstated in 6 months and the other may be 1 year. what gives? how do they know if a person is truly repentant and not faking it just to get reinstated.

  They don't know everything in these cases. There are several factors that influence
  their decisions. If a member is related to elders or those that contribute much at
  the hall somehow (not necessarily financially), they might reinstate sooner. If a person
  starts requesting reinstatement sooner and bugs the elders regularly, they get reinstated
  faster. If they used to have privileges, they assume they will reach out again so they
  get reinstated sooner.

  If they miss meetings regularly or don't sit quietly in the back, they get reinstated later.
  Sometimes the elders like someone or don't like someone. If they carry the groups in
  their minivan for field service, they get reinstated before the sister who takes the bus.

  All kinds of reasons.
• 

  oompa

  When you leave the room, most elders will cast lots on the floor. some have black side and others are white....this is how they determine repententance.....as far as guilt...they count tears mostly....so sometimes they miss one or two and get the wrong idea.......oompa
• 

  Octarine Prince

  It's bullshit.
  
  Since they can't read hearts, all they can go by is actions. If 100 disfellowshipped people all attend the meetings regularly, pay attention, maybe even take notes, and make no attempts to fraternize with congregation members, then 100 people should be getting reinstated in six months or so. Are you reading, elders? Are you reading, Bethel?
  
  This is NOT the case. They bring in all other kinds of bullshit.
• 

  ldrnomo

  it's all in the show. If you put on the show you can make them think your repentent the show is:

  1). Go to all the meetings

  2). Highlight the watchtower mag for the study

  3) tell them why you aren't at a meeting. Uf you don't your s**t

  That's about all you can do but if you do that and keep giving them letters that say you want to be reinstated it will happen

  LD
• 

  SnakesInTheTower

  fisherman:

  policy is that it is Better to err on the side of mercy

  I had a young MTS grad CO rip me a new one for using that phrase... he told me it was such a serious matter to DF that we elders better not "err"...that the decision had already been made in heaven and that our decision better match...we are dealing with lives.... that Jehovah would deal with us elders (who are supposedly appointed via holy spirit)...and if we did not use the scriptures (which were supposedly written under direction of holy spirit) then our decision would be flawed.... seriously...he said that....

  so where is the flaw in that process? holy spirit....which is supposedlyGod's active force..and supposedly God doesnt make mistakes.....so...logically..with all the errors in WT teachings based on the bible, and all of the idiot elders appointed by god making bad decisions....it seems God is making a lot of mistakes in the last 125 years or so...humph....

  no wonder I gave it up....they appointed me as an elder and I was lurking here?!!! ...so much for holy spirit being involved in appointments... heh heh... I guess holy spirit caught up after about 6 years..... and deleted my sorry elder butt.... thankfully.....

  Snakes ()
• 

  str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up

  I agree Oompa. Its a dice roll. They wait till you've left the room and pull out the Urim and the Thummin (spelling??)... Then the mystical forces of Jehobidoobie forces their hand. LOL
• 

  jwfacts

  It all depends on how good an actor you are, and the personality of your elders.
  
  I know plenty of people that were made elders or MS whilst committing fornication and adultry. One of my friends was made an MS whilst a practicing homosexual.
  
  Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the elders.
• 

  iceguy

  Goddessrachel I feel the same way. I did everything I was supposed to and they say no. What gets me its not even scriptual...unless you use the NWT. I think what they really need to explain is how someone can have a relationship with jehovah and Jesus and not be in the orginization. I wonder if anyone has ever filed a law suit against them if a family member committed suicide while being df'd ?
• 

  jwblog

  i know of a case of a girl in my former congregation who has been DF 3 or 4 times (in fact she is Df now) who was going to the meeting. she never missed one and everyone including the elders thought she was so repentent. well guess what? she was still doing all the things she was doing when she got DF. she hadnt really changed at all. the elders felt she showed repentence and reinstated her. my question is how are they able to determine that? can they read peoples hearts. this girl was faking repentence the entire time she was trying to get reinstated. i know the elders in my former congregation DF who they wanted and reinstated who they wanted. i know of many cases where some were struggling with alcholism like my mom and they basically treated her as if she was a criminial and took all her privileges away like pioneering and she had only fallen off the wagon that one time. she never was the same. she started going downhill ever since.they thought she could just get over her problem i guess. what i dont get is there can be 2 people doing the same thing like fornicating,committing adultery, smoking or whatever and they get DF. if both are trying to get reinstated one may get reinstated in 6 months and the other may be 1 year. what gives? how do they know if a person is truly repentant and not faking it just to get reinstated. thats why i dont understand the DF arrangement. supposely its to keep the congregation "clean". really can an imperfect man, elder in this case tell whether or not someone is involved in wrongdoing? what determines the length of time that a person has to serve in order to get reinstated? and how do they know people

  Please weigh this out in your heart and your mind. What you just posted is evidence that they have no idea who is, or who is not repentant. If one that is a so-called elder is making an attempt to lead the congregation and he is found guilty of misconduct by his fellow men, then he should not be allowed to teach. This is because an elder must give a worthy example to the flock otherwise his words hold no weight.

  Who gave those in the congregation assigned to lead the flock permission to judge the people that are there to learn? If a person sins against another among the flock let them have the opportunity to forgive before they present their offering to God. It is the law to forgive if one is repentant. If it is a small quarrel it is mandatory to find remedy. If it is a sin as fornication or adultery, it is between the male and female and no one else. If a mate chooses to forgive, then the other mate is forgiven by God as well. If the mate is deceitful against the other then it is for God to straighten out their course. The one that decieves is truly not repentant.

  People are at a congregation for a reason, so they can better their lives. Not everyone is perfect, and the law states do not judge one another. If a person that has a weakness sexually and is attending in order to find strength, then help them along and teach them if possible how to remain strong. It is commanded that you should confess your sins to one another. This means that you confess to the one you sinned against, not the entire congregation, and especially not one called an elder. If two people choose to approach an elder in order to ask for assistance, it then becomes their right to be informed.

  Jesus Christ mingled with the sinners because they were in need of assistance. One who is strong can manage, one who is weak needs a helping hand. If a person is afflicted with too much alcohol consumption they are in need of assistance. Help a lazy man not to be lazy man anymore so that he can eat. Help a fornicator understand what problems their acts might cause. Help a man weak in the flesh understand that being weak is not a wise course. Put up with one another and love one another.

  No person has the right to judge another, it is written. Forgive willingly those that are truly repentant, and bring yourselves comfort in the heart. Because love helps to make one another stronger, and helps many to endure until Jesus arrives in his full glory. The practice of removing one from the congregation stands only for those that are taking the lead and setting an example for the rest. Extend love to those that are there to learn, and do not cause them pain and suffering.

  The faithful and discreet slave (by their fruits you will recognize them)
• 

  monophonic

  it's all BS and politics. what'll get you df'ed and dealt with harshly in one congregation will get you reproved and a light touch in another.

  they feel they're appointed by god's holy spirit. and god's holy spirit also told the governing body to allow the killings to continue in malawi even though there was nothing wrong. and god's holy spirit said education was bad. then it was good. then it was bad again.

  god's holy spirit just told me it's almost midnight and i should grab a drink from the bar around the corner.

  god's holy spirit rawks!