Wrote a letter to the Catholic Chruch. (page 3)

BurnTheShips

I know this question was directed towards Tom, but I will attempt a reply (he is apparently away):

Do you know if the Catholic church views JW baptism as being "in the manner prescribed by Jesus"? The Watchtower CLAIMS that JWs baptize "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" but many here would disagree with that view.

They don't. The baptism is not carried out in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And even if it was, the JWs see the Son as a created angel, and the Holy Spirit as an impersonal force so the intention of the baptismal formula would not be the same and therefore invalidate it.

Bottom Line: Are active JWs viewed as "separated brethren"?

Being that baptism is how we are brought into the body of Christ, and that only members of that body are Christian, an invalid baptism does not accomplish this. If JWs are not part of the body of Christ, then they are not Christian, and they are not "separated brethren."

Also, can "separated brethren" go to heaven?

It is possible.

BTS

FlyingHighNow

I wrote one to the Trinity Episcopal Church in Morgan City, La. I never heard from them. They likely, wisely, took it tongue in cheek. I was confirmed into the church just over two years ago. The letter didn't matter.

Tom Cabeen

Hi OM,

The Catholic Church does not recognize JW baptism as valid, so a person only baptized by JWs would need to be baptized into the Catholic church. If there is some question about it (like it was a long time ago, when JW baptism was more orthodox, the church would most likely give you a conditional baptism, which is just like a regular baptism, except that the priest says "If you are not already baptized, I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

That being the case, they do not view JWs as "separated brethren" but rather merely as unbaptized persons. That does not mean that are forever lost, though. Even unbaptized persons can go to heaven, at God's good pleasure. Bottom line, all descendants of Adam and Eve are God's children, and he does not desire any to be lost, but for all to be saved. God judges based on what people do with what they have. Also, although there are norms (meaning the normal way things are done), the norms are for us, not for God. He can do whatever he wants, including bringing pagans to heaven, at his good pleasure (like the thief on the cross next to Jesus). And his good pleasure is much more merciful than you or I will ever be. That is the good news.

Tom

FlyingHighNow

Oh and they made you write the letter if you were a member of any church. I don't think it mattered if you were baptized or not.

Blueblades

Tom, Thanks for clearing this up. However, I have since lost faith in all religions and cannot accept "The Holy Bible" as my guide. I have come to accept it has a work of man and not God.

Even though you say no matter, that I am still a Catholic, non-practicing one at that and can go to confession and be restored to the faith, I feel nothing. It's been since 1969 that I left the church and became one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I did the fade in 2002 and since have moved away from the Brooklyn Headquarters to another state.

I reason that there is a cause of all life. What that is I don't know. So, here I am stuck in limbo so to speak, with no spiritual awakening, no personal experience with 'The Lord'. I'm 63 years old and my days are numbered, death will give me the final answer.

Blueblades

FlyingHighNow

The Episcopal Church recognizes baptisms if they are done in the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost and any one so baptized is welcomed to their communion table.

BurnTheShips

Even unbaptized persons can go to heaven, at God's good pleasure. Bottom line, all descendants of Adam and Eve are God's children, and he does not desire any to be lost, but for all to be saved. God judges based on what people do with what they have. Also, although there are norms (meaning the normal way things are done), the norms are for us, not for God. He can do whatever he wants, including bringing pagans to heaven, at his good pleasure (like the thief on the cross next to Jesus). And his good pleasure is much more merciful than you or I will ever be. That is the good news.

Amen!

Tom Cabeen

Hi Cas,

Of course, anyone could walk into a Catholic Church, claim to be baptized, show some sort of forged documents, and go through the motions of being "reconciled" to the church. (In our case, the priest asked for documentation that my wife and I had been baptized. She had been baptized a Catholic, I was baptized a Methodist. We contacted the churches, who had records of both our baptisms.)

And you could most likely get away with it, at least until you die and meet up with the one who know everything. Then, Lucy, you might have some 'splainin' to do. But hey, God might just laugh and say "Come on in, you clever dog!" :-)

Tom

FlyingHighNow

Blue, it doesn't sound like you are worried. And you shouldn't be, about death. You might find this an interesting read:

Tom Cabeen

Hi Dove,

As a general rule, yes. According to the traditional doctrine of the Catholic Church there are four requirements for the valid administration of the sacrament of Baptism: the matter (it must be done with water), the form (using the Trinitarian formula from Matthew 28), the intention of the minister (the baptizer must mean to baptize you), and the right disposition of the recipient (you must want to be baptized, or someone in charge of you like a parent or relative wants to have you baptized.

Most baptisms performed in Christian churches of all denominations meet those four qualifications. More info here: http://www.ewtn.com/library/theology/mormbap1.htm It's about Mormons, but you can easily see how the thinking goes if you read it.

Since Jesus Christ is actually the one who actually administers the sacrament of baptism (he accomplishes the change in your soul that occurs when you are baptized) the earthly baptist only needs to follow Jesus' instructions. Jesus does the rest. So whether or not your name is on some list somewhere is completely irrelevant. Jesus knows who he has cleansed from sin, and he never forgets.

Tom

Wrote a letter to the Catholic Chruch.

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