Jesus Saves (page 3)

parakeet

Mouthy wrote: "....cant answer any ones Questions But I KNOW what I believe....."

Mouthy, all of us know what we believe. I know I believe life is worth living. I know I believe my JW mother loves me in spite of everything. Your certainty of belief does not constitute convincing proof for those who don't believe Jesus saves. I'm willing to concede (if shown solid evidence) that perhaps life is not worth living and that my mother does not love me. Are you willing to admit that knowing and believing are two separate things?

BTW, I KMOW I believe I love you, so I hope you know I'm not trying to hurt your feelings.

kwintestal

He's Jewish. Nuf said.

Kwin

mouthy

No Parakeet>
Mouthy, all of us know what we believe. I know I believe life is worth living.

I wasnt trying to say my beliefs were valid I was just saying that MY belief has helped me walk in the road What is that belieef you may ask,? It is that we were created, & our purpose in life was to love all "do unto others'I dont believe life is worth living. I want to stop the world & get off, if it was possible. I have had enough of it. Guess I didnt make myself clear sorry...

White Dove

Well, silly me! It is a link afterall.

Terry

Here is what historically happened.

1. A tribal myth was passed from generation to generation that the Jews were a special and chosen people who would be above every other nation.

2.Constant disambiguations tested that myth and proved it wrong.

3. To rescue the myth, great thinkers concocted a way to save it. They declared that God punished this chosen people whenever they failed to live up to perfect standards.

4. Even when the Jews were on their best behavior, however, they still got their asses kicked. Jerusalem was destroyed. Leaders were carried off to Babylon.

5.While in Babylon, the Jews discovered another intellectual concept that would create an "out" for their myth: SATAN! When they were "good" Satan was attacking them. When they were bad, God was punishing them. Now they could justify anything that kept them down!

6.Returning from exile, a book was assembled that wove together myths, stories, histories and prophecies to demonstrate that Everything Happens for a Reason. A Hope for the future of Judaism was formed: Messianic rescue!

7.The Greeks conquered the Middle East and threatened Jewish worship. The new temple was defiled.

8.The Maccabees overthrew (temporarily) outsiders and a surge of self-empowerment "proved" they were God's special and chosen darlings.

9.The Romans invaded and the Jews were subjugated. The myth was busted again! The Maccabbes were not Messianic.

10. Another "save" was circulated: This would be a superhero who, like David, would catapult the Jews into special status and prove to the world they really were the CHOSEN PEOPLE! This was a new and improved Messiah!

11. False Messiahs came and went. Each claimed special status and each failed.

12. Jesus came along. He was Apocalyptic. The end was near and his teachings electrified a select group of Messianic Jews.

13.Jesus' ministry failed when he was put to death---BUT--a rumor was started that God repudiated the error of those Jews who sold him out and handed him over to the Romans. JESUS REALLY WAS the very Messiah they'd been waiting on.

14. Stories grew like wildfire. Jesus was resurrected. So and so says they saw and heard him. He did this and that miracle. The rumors grew richer in detail.

15. Saul of Tarsus, a persecutor because of conservative Jewish beliefs, suddenly changed his mind! Paul effectively started telling everybody JESUS HAD APPEARED TO HIM! Paul saved the Messiah myth by EXPLAINING it differently! Paul's version told Jews that the real Messiah (Jesus) was proved to be genuine because he suffered and died and was resurrected by Jehovah!

16. With no other choices before them the Jews were faced with a terrible dillemma. A.:Accept the Jesus is Messiah story and prepare for his imminent return and be on the winning side by demonstrating they were sorry for turning him over to the Romans. or...B. Take matters into their own hands and overthrow the Romans like the Maccabees did!

17. When the rebellious Maccabee-like revolt failed and Jerusalem was destroyed (yet again!) only one choice remained.

A. Admit that the Jews are NOT a special, chosen people any different from any other tribe in the Roman Empire.

or....

B. Get Baptised and embrace the JESUS IS MESSIAH idea and prepare for the End of the World Apocalypse that (at least) gave them a chance to be winners instead of wannabe losers!

18. The Jewish religion split (already into factions) again into Jewish-Christians and, ultimately simply Christians who were Gentiles.

The Gentile dominated sect outgrew the Judeo-christian part and overwhelmed the rest.

JESUS did not SAVE the jews so much as allow them to trade one myth for another!

______________________________________________

Epilogue

1. The World is going to End when Jesus Returns shortly crowd never saw the second coming. Didn't happen.

2. A new theory developed. The world must be converted to Christianity by preaching first---then, the end will come.

Christians have fallen into the myth-trap the Jews once faced.

A. Jesus is coming back soon.....almost now!

B. Become perfect, convert the world and set a good example through behavior

The more things change....the more they stay the same!

Awakened07

Jesus saves because he is the scapegoat.

No, literally; the scapegoat. He's the anti-type of the literal goat the Jews put their sins onto, as if it was a physical burden, and sent into the wilderness (probably to die).

How that works I don't know. He had to send himself (or be sent, depending on ones beliefs) to die for our sins, to take our sins on his back and carry them away, as it were.

A lot of theatrics, mysticism and drama from someone who had the power to simply say "OK - I hereby forgive you all". Could have said so from heaven, broadcast on our brain-waves. But no.

Blood had to be spilled. God's blood, no less (or His son's, depending). Considering every single person who ever lived has had their "blood spilled" by dieing, what more could each person do? What did Jesus' death add to that?

The sacrifice? The "scapegoat" mystic symbolism of carrying our sins? Why? A simple "I forgive you, mankind" wouldn't suffice? Considering he had to "do the job" himself anyway, and be the means of our salvation, you'd think it would.

I mean - He decided it. He then carried out the job as well, since we couldn't. Why go through it? Why the "magical spell" mysticism of a blood sacrifice?

Ironically, the fact that I don't get it is seen only as a sign that I don't have the Holy Spirit. Go figure.

You're not supposed to 'understand' it, you're just supposed to 'feel' it.

Am I wrong? Have I totally misunderstood? Can it be logically, rationally explained?

shamus100

Can it be logically or reasonably explained?

No, it cannot. You need to have faith based on zero facts before you can understand... also known as circular reasoning.

Perry

But after the WT kicked me out ( I felt wicked & evil like Judas) I had learned to pray via the WT teachings I still did !!!! But my prayers changed into tears.. "God if your there Please tell me what is right to do,Please tell me what is truth,? where can I go...?& an exJW told me he read the New testament with out the WT glasses.... Told me he found Romans helped him. So being the Copycat I had been for years I did what he suggested... It helped me to have Faith..

Thanks for your testimony Mouthy! The "Man of Sorrows" honored those tears.



Romans 8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Before God did this for me, I had no real "proof".

mouthy

Perry > I agree

dinah

Granny Grace,

I haved loved you from the first words I read.

Jesus Saves

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