Jesus Saves

by Farkel 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Hint: it can't be proven, as it can't be disproven! It's all a matter of faith. I have no problem with faith, either. I do have a problem with all those people who run around spouting Jesus Saves! every chance they get. They should just quit being so vocal, especially at inappropriate times and let Jesus deal with it. Jesus doesn't need any cheerleaders. He can handle things by himself without any help.

    Hence you own chauvinsim. Jesus often speaks through his brothers. Many are broken otherwise. But he saves the little lost sheep. Jesus is dealing with it.

    BTS

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    Hey Farkel - you leave off my buddy Jesus - he can turn water into wine dont you know. That makes him alright by me

  • brofromzion
    brofromzion

    Wow we have a bunch of unbelievers that don't believe what the Bible testifies. You guys keep saying that Jesus can't save you when you guys are not looking at what the Bible testifies. Clearly, you guys don't the the secret of forgiveness of sins that Jesus brought us. Do you guys know why you are here on Earth? Is God a loving God? Does He enjoy seeing His children in pain? sorrow? Then why would He put us in Earth that is full of pain, sorrow, sickness. Let's study the Bible and find out why are we here on Earth. First, let's find out what how God created the first man, Adam:

    Genesis 2:7 [Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.]

    So man is compose of two elements: dust which is the flesh and breathe of life which is out spirit or soul. Then what happens when a man dies:

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 [then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.]

    Return? So our dust returns to the Earth as it was and our spirit returns to God? How can we return to a place where we have never been before? Like for example, if I tell you to return to my home and you have never been there, how can you? Then we must have been in Heaven with God even before all men were created in Earth. Let's find out through the Bible if we have life even before the world were created. Here, King Solomon testifies about our existence even before world were created by God:

    Proverbs 8:22-26 ["The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works before his deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, as given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.]

    Proverbs 8:30 [Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence.]

    Wow. Clearly King Solomon was a craftsman at God's side before the world began, before God made the Earth or any dust of the world. Then now let's see another example of our existence before the world began when God spoke to Job:

    Job 38:1-4 [Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.]

    Job 38:21 [Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!]

    Wow. Another proof of our existence before the world began that God revealed to Job that he was already born and have lived so many years before God laid the Earth's foundation. King Solomon and Job are also men like us, composed of dust(flesh) and breathe of life(spirit or soul). So now, why are we all men here on Earth that's full of sorrow, pain and suffering when we all rejoice in God's presence with Him? Let's see what the Bible reveals to us what God did to King of Tyre:

    Ezekiel 28:12-17 ["Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: " 'You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.]

    King of Tyre, a guardian cherub, was thrown to the Earth by God because he sinned? Now it's clear that all of us are here on Earth because of sin. Now what is the punishment of sin:

    Romans 6:23 [For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.]

    Romans 5:12 [Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.]

    Death is the punishment of sin and we all sinned since we are all on Earth, it also says that God's gift is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Ephesians 1:7 [In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace.]

    Now through Jesus blood, our sins can be forgiven. Did Jesus gave us a way to receive it?

    Luke 22:7-8 [Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover."]

    Luke 22:19-20 [And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.]

    John 6:53 [Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.]

    There you go. The Passover lamb, Jesus body and blood gives eternal life. But can we celebrate it whenever we want or look at the Bible on when to celebrate it? Remember, it is also celebrated on the first month on the fourteenth day, just as celebrated in the age of the Father, Jehovah:

    Matthew 5:17 ["Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.]

    Jesus fulfilll the laws of the Prophets, not to abolished them. Passover lamb in the Old Testament is just the shadow of Jesus suffering and bearing our sins so that we may have eternal life and escape death and disaster. God is so merciful and has always given us a chance to escape from death and disasters and return to Him in Heaven by celebrating the Passover just as Jesus and His Apostles celebrated it. God bless you.

  • Superfine Apostate
    Superfine Apostate

    oh, spiritual food at proper time! that's just what i needed, a random playlist of bible verses. jesus saves!

  • logic&reason
    logic&reason

    Jesus saves, George Nelson withdraws.

  • startingover
    startingover

    For those of you that say believing in Jesus makes your life better, do you think that those believers 2000 years ago imporved their lives by believing? Since many suffered because of it, and all died 2000 years ago, and there is absolutely no evidence there was any heavenly reward, was it worth it?

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    brofromzion,

    The challenge was to prove that Jesus saves, not a challenge to who could provide the most unrelated Bible verses. In that case, you would have won.

    The Bible claims that Jesus saves, just as it claims to be the word of God. You can't use a book that makes claims as the basis for proving those claims. It's called circular reasoning or begging the question.

    Just show me someone who is saved and who can prove they are saved because of Jesus, but you can't use the conclusion to prove the premise.

    Farkel

  • belbab
    belbab

    Thanks Farkel for pointing out the direction of your thread. I see we are both humming a similar tune, and I may be off-key at times, but at least I am humming.

    I looked up Jesus Saves in Blue Letter Bible concordance and could find no references in the Bible of this expression in the present tense. In KJV there is also no place where saves is in the present tense. The NWT, has two “saves” but they do not apply to this discussion. Draw your own conclusions.

    I want to bring your request to prove Jesus Saves, right up to the present moment, that is right up to May 28, 2008, to the exact time that shows up on the post or to the exact time that anyone reading it. To do this I want to do a simple experiment.

    As a member the JWD synagogue I assume I should have the permission to read one scripture, from the NWT naturally. I have no idea what the reaction to my experiment will be. It may fizzle out or may start a conflagration. I am reading this scripture with all the solemnity, seriousness, and sincerity I can muster, although there is a slight tad of cheekiness in it also.

    Here is my reading:

    Luke 4:18 “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, that is, belbab, the writer of this post, because he anointed me, belbab, to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.”

    I, belbab, am saying to you, the readers: today, May 28, 2008 this scripture that YOU are just reading is being fulfilled.

    Would I be stoned for this?

    Would Jesus save me from a figurative stoning?

    Belbab of the “you may fire when ready, Gridley, class”

  • logic&reason
    logic&reason

    Revelation 22: 18,19 -

    18

    "I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.

    Sorry belbab... according to the NWT, you condemn yourself.

  • logic&reason
    logic&reason

    ...of course, I don't believe any of it anymore, so I think you'll be fine.

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