Should the Name Jehovah Appear in the New Testament?

by hamilcarr 39 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    It omits the fact that there is a Greek text for the quotation in the NT text itself, which generally differs from the Hebrew Masoretic text (and sometimes from the Greek LXX as well) in many ways beside the "divine name". The NWT follows this (NT Greek) text for the OT quotations, except for the "divine name".

    Furuli argues that none of the Septuagint manuscripts before the second century CE contain kurios as a substitute for the TG.

    I was not referring to the LXX, but to the very NT reading of the quotations, which may or may not reflect the LXX.

    About the LXX, it has been amply demonstrated (especially from the wealth of pre-Christian references and quotations, by Aristobulus or Philo for instance -- Leolaia made a comprehensive post not long ago about it) that the substitution of kurios to Yhwh belongs to the original LXX, even though the oldest extant mss happen to reflect a particular Palestinian-influenced recension which reintroduces the Tetragrammaton.

    Ironically enough, the NWT itself demonstrates that at least some NT authors did read kurios instead of Yhwh, since the introduction of "Jehovah" into the quotation destroys the line of argument (which is centered on the word kurios)and the very point of the quotation (e.g. Romans 10 and 14).

  • asilentone
    asilentone

    Narkissos, you have PM

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Nobody ever mentions Jerome in these debates.

    He says in "Prologus Galeatus" in prefacing Samuel and Malachi:

    "We find the four lettered name of God in certain Greek Volumes to this day, expressed in ancient letters."

    In a letter of around 384 he relates that when coming upon these hebrew letters ... "certain ignorant ones because of the similarity of the characters ... were accustomed to pronounce PI PI" Mistaking them for greek letters.

    Is the Witchtower distorting this too??

    HB

  • oompa
    oompa

    Where's oompa? This is his favorite subject... The article in the WT must be an answer to his "prayers"...

    A@G

    Hi AG....and thanks for the pm about this....I have been kinda busy having my ears kinda pulled by another here on JWD! But that will have to be another thread. I have not had time to read all the posts here yet but OTWO sums a lot of this up very nicely here:

    It appears that God protected HIS WORD
    (as WTS says in other places that He did) so the tetragrammaton was NEVER there. God
    protected HIS WORD, so copies are as accurate as the originals OR God did not protect
    the Bible, it is not HIS WORD, so errors got in. You cannot have it both ways (unless you
    mind-control your followers).

    One of the funniest quotes they use is by Jerome, who supposedly went and found the original writing of John I believe.....in a library in Cessarea....and was allowed to make a copy of it....This guy would have flipped out if he found the divine name in the original!!! He wrote all about this name....had an interest in it as an historian. This would have been like finding the holy grail for him.......so what did Jerome find when he copied the original writings of John..........nada.....no tetragrammaton....period....end of story....it was not there an it is so deceitful for WT to even imply it MUST have been there! And that Satan is just sooooo damn thorough! Somehow....with Christianity and bibles spreading like wildfire all over he world....he is able to alter EVERY SINGLE COPY IN THE WORLD....and remove the divine name from ALL of them!!!! WT loves to mention that the Bible could not have changed even a bit and that the oldest manuscripts are only about 20 years after the death of the apostles....not enough time for major changes to occur. Ahhh the irony......WT so loves the name......they have singlehandedly dragged the God of the Jews kicking and screaming into Christianity....and I saw that they say other modern Bibles do this?????? WHO!!!! WHERE ARE THEY? WHY ARE THE NUTJOB J-VERSIONS IN EVERY KINGDOM HALL LIBRARY??? I have yet to find ANY other Bible that makes this same abomination by ADDING the name Jehovah to the New Testament.....anybody else?....................please dont get me started....now my blood pressure is up.....oompa

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    I cannot stand listening to the MP3, it reminds me of Drama's at the District Convention with the voices of old Americans (no offence to Americans), they just did not sound like normal accents that we hear on TV.

    I get the feeling the Watchtower adds articles like this to counter questions being raised on the Internet. The thing is, these get more JWs asking and researching online, and hence more seeing how spurious Watchtower information is and leaving. This subject was key to my awakening about the Watchtower Society.

    The important thing to me was the paradox this raises - A JW has to accept the Bible as infallible, AND accept it as flawed and missing key words. Moreover, missing without trace is the most vital Watchtower concept of all, that the name Jehovah is critical for salvation. No matter whether or not adding Jehovah into the NT is justified, the Watchtower position removes all credibility from the Bible.

  • OBVES
    OBVES

    Fortunately my native language is Polish and using the words in Polish with omitting vowels I was able pretty well to reconstruct the original wordings of words. I am writing this to let you know that it must have been a similar way the Hebrew words containing consonants could have been read .

    The Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH when pronounced renders three words similar in sounding !

    YAHWEH - YAHWAH- YEHOWAH you could hear that if you could have a chance to hear me to utter these four consonants.

    Since we have Yah in Psalm 68.4 and HalleluYAH it is the best to use "YAHWEH".

    The name Jehovah's Witnesses use is a close rendering aceptable to God and He knows they mean Him !

    Most Americans will not be able to pronounce my Polish last name and yet I know that people who say my last name twisted mean me and I accept that .

    I can give you perfect examples in reconstitution of words written in consonants in the Polish language and the principle with reading the Hebrew the same !

    wtrk - wtorek ! sbt-sobota ! tblc-tablica ! 100% reconstruction of words who had missing vowels !

    If this principle is so successful there are good reasons to believe YHWH is YAHWEH.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    OBVES ducks the question. While I like your reasoning that God knows who
    they mean, it almost sounds like you consulted with Him on that.

    But you discuss the right name for God and even change the subject line.
    The question of this thread is really whether WTS should change the translation
    from what that God supposedly handed down. Does God hand them flawed
    scriptures and give them the right to "correct" it?

    I know I state it in such a strong way. Just use the question in the subject line.

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    OTWO, sounds like you're vying for position with V here! Good post!

    StAnn

  • Forscher
    Forscher

    I personally think that the evidence is reasonable that the divine name may well have been in the original Greek texts.

    However, reasonable is not strong enough to justify "restoring" the divine name to the NT. The problem consists entirely in just how one will determine where to put it since there is no solid textual evidence in known manuscripts or papyri. Any basis one can come up with is theoretical at best. That is a very poor basis on which take such action in my opinion.

    Frankly speaking, it may also be rather presumptuous to do so anyway. If one can assume that there is a god, and that the Bible is his word, and I do assume both as a priory assumptions, then it also follows that said god would see the text of his message to us preserved in exactly the form he wishes us to have it. Since there is no hard evidence as to where the divine name was, then either it wasn't there to begin with, or he considers his name secondary to the message he wishes us to have.

    I think that God is perfectly capable of preserving a text with his name in it if he wants to. Until such text surfaces, there are manuscripts we tucked away we don't have access to, I would not think it proper to take the step Freddy Franz did. But then I do not consider myself God's personal oracle to the rest of mankind either.

    Just my opinion.

    Forscher

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    This is an absolute "No Brainer!!"......The name "Jehovah" did not appear before the 14th century.....Try to find it,before the 14th century..It dosen`t exist!!............If it dosen`t exist before the 14th century..Jesus would never have used that name.....Ever!!..........Should the name Jehovah,appear in the New Testament??..No!.........Clint Eastwood...OUTLAW

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