Robert7, in addition to wanting to wish you and "New Light for You" all the best... I also want to bookmark this thread for the excellent suggestions.
Gary Buss, as usual, you are my hero. Magnificent suggestions.
Jgnat... I LOVE the "do you REALLY want to know?" I think you're right... they are terrified to hear it.
Love and strength to all,
Baba.
Need suggestions... how do I respond to my elders?
by Robert7 35 Replies latest jw friends
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BabaYaga
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BluesBrother
I'm still afraid to get DF'd, although I am prepared to DA if I must.
O K , so what's the difference? You are toast either way , in their view - but so what? Your family and associates will still not talk to you..My view is that if they catch up with me I will give them a run for their money and tie up as much of their valuable time as I can, by appealing.
Around here the elders are just the opposite . You can stop attending and they just don't care , nobody will follow up. They are concerned only with reports for the Congregation records but once you slip off the radar of statistics, nobody gives a Youknowwhat...
My wife begged them to talk with me and so they granted me an hour at the K Hall. At that time I was more respectful so I stated all my "concerns" in the form of questions so they viewed me as a man in the category of "one with doubts" to be "readjusted" Gal.6.1. I said things like "It could almost make one think that......" or "If somebody asked me...................I would struggle to answer"
If the conversation were to take place now I would be more outspoken...
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besty
Don't trust so-called friendly elders that you feel comfortable with.
The goalposts have moved and you are still playing with yesterdays rulebook - these are conditional friends with no loyalty to anyone but the Borg.
Way before we were DF'd but after stopping going to meetings we agreed to meet with one elder, friend of the family for over 30 years and he had performed Sam and I's marriage. He had been removed as an elder for very spurious reasons and recently put back on, so we did feel he would be sympathetic.
Wrong.
He brought another elder, uninvited.
He didn't open or close in prayer.
He didn't use any scriptures.
He did ask us in 10 different ways if we were loyal to the FDS.
After an uncomfortable 20 minutes they left.
Be very careful and be prepared for the loyalty test. -
Edward Elder
Elders have a long list of complex rules for so-called 'gross sins'. Big boy of all naughties is 'apostasy' i.e. daring not to swallow all the illogical, changing, prejudiced ideas of the grey men in Brooklyn - never question - ever.
In all of this controlling framweork there exists an opportunity to use the rules in your favour i.e. know the rules, play the 'game' and stick to your plan - no matter what.
The elders 'Pay Attention' book (or manual) says about apostasy, "Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates" - italics mine! - ks91 p94
If 2 elders hear you question any teaching of the FDS, they can move to JC quicker than you can say 'Freddie Franz'. The manual gives the instruction to do this.
So previous advice to be vague, non-specific etc is good. NEVER question FDS teachings in front of the elders or those who will report you.
They win if they DF you, since they then have more power over any family members that are still in - in other words, they can more easily get to you.
You win if you manage the situation, use their (man-made) rules in your favour and just fade.
If you are brought up before a JC there are 6 questions / issues the elders will ask to judge 'repentance'. If you give convincing answers to these it will be much more difficult for them to DF you and you may then fade following a private or public reproof - this is contingency if it ever gets as far as a JC.
The questions / issues are:
1) Have you contritely prayed to Jeh and sought his forgiveness and mercy?
2) Have you admitted the wrongdoing? - preferably voluntarily to an elder before the JC
3) Express willingness to make restitution / apologise to any effected by your 'sin' - really strong if this is done before a JC
4) Show 'heartfelt godly sadness' i.e. convince them your primary concern is not your own neck, but the cong, org, Jeh etc.
5) Talk loads about your damaged relationship with Jeh, repraoch on his name and your longing to come back to his favour
6) Say that you totally reject the previous course (i.e. apostasy or doubts) and find it repugnant now you have come to your senses, prayed etc.Of course, it takes balls to go through this stuff if you have to, but it's worth considering as a contingency if you're in the last chance saloon and you want to use the 'rules' to minimise damage to you and your family.
Not every one wants to do this, but it's worth knowing the rules of this cult so that you can make an informed decision on how you want to plan your fade.
Hope that helps and best wishes.
EE
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BabaYaga
Thanks for the questions list, Edward Elder, and heartiest welcome!
Quote:
"The questions / issues are:
1) Have you contritely prayed to Jeh and sought his forgiveness and mercy?
2) Have you admitted the wrongdoing? - preferably voluntarily to an elder before the JC
3) Express willingness to make restitution / apologise to any effected by your 'sin' - really strong if this is done before a JC
4) Show 'heartfelt godly sadness' i.e. convince them your primary concern is not your own neck, but the cong, org, Jeh etc.
5) Talk loads about your damaged relationship with Jeh, repraoch on his name and your longing to come back to his favour
6) Say that you totally reject the previous course (i.e. apostasy or doubts) and find it repugnant now you have come to your senses, prayed etc.
Of course, it takes balls to go through this stuff if you have to, but it's worth considering as a contingency if you're in the last chance saloon and you"
~End quote. -
Robert7
Great stuff... yuck, I will really have to swallow my pride here if I want to continue to fade. Those questions are quite strong, and oh my gosh does that sound like a cult or what?
Every day I am getting less and less afraid of getting DF/DA, so we'll see where it goes.