I was having a normal conversation with my witness mom 81 years old ( a witness for 57 years ) and the subject came up about my 56 year old sister who recently suffered a stroke in February . My sister suffered for years with post-traumatic stress syndrome from an extremely abusive JW husband throughout the 1980's. She was beaten, raped forcibly by him, and emotionally abused by his drug induced screaming rants, and to top that off; cheated on her constantly- even with sisters in the congregation. By 1989; after 20 years she had had it. What kept her from leaving him before that ? One word; elders.
My mom revealed information about what had happened - which I had never been told by her - but because of the obvious fallacies of the organization , mom opened up to me about in regards to events surrounding my sister's situation ! My mom stated that when things were really getting bad for my sister towards 1989 , and my sister wanted to go to the elders about her abusive husband , another sister who had gone to the elders about her own abusive husband told my sister, " I just want you to know if you go to the elders about this abuse by your husband , they will downplay it, and they won't believe you. It is a man's organization ; and they don't take kindly to sisters ratting their abusive husbands out. " After my mom quoted what this sister told my sister, my mom said, " And you know what, this sister WAS RIGHT ! It is a patriarchal, man's organization . And how I saw the elders treat your sister made me disgusted ! "
My mom continued saying she sat in on the meeting my sister had with the elders, and was there when the elders questioned her grandchildren ( my sisters kids) about events that happened in their home regarding their father. And my mom said, " I was sickened by the questions the elders asked my grandchildren ! They were totally inappropriate questions to be asking a 14 year old or 12 year old ! " My mom did not elaborate what those questions were precisely ; and I did not press her about it. As it was my sister's husband did get DFed for adultery and drug abuse - but I asked my mom , " Do you think my sister's husband would have been DFed for just the spousal abuse if adultery and drug abuse wasn't involved ? " I continued, " My first JW wife's dad was a witness, an alcoholic, who beat his 5th wife to a pulp, and only got a slap on the wrist, private reproof, got bailed out of jail, and because he allegedly repented , now he goes to meetings giving talks, commenting, and out in service, like he's totally reformed ! " My mom thought for a minute and said, " You have a good point ! "
So- I left it at that , explaining to my mom , that this is why I did not put up with an abusive 2nd wife who , once again, the elders told me to take her back in 2003, but doing so would have put my teenage children at risk, if I had taken her back ! So my mom understood my position. And this discussion tied some things together for me as to why my mom and dad were so supportive to me back in 2003, when I disagreed with the elders telling me to take back an abusive wife ! My folks had seen it years earlier with my older sister ! Bingo !
So- I hope my mom thinks on this in regards to other things happening in the witnesses ; but it verified for me what I've suspected about my mom - she DOES see through the BS in regards to the elders and is open minded enough to have admitted it to me . So have any of you had a revealing admission by your witness parents before - where you saw that the light had turned on for them in regards to the fallacies of the witness organization ?? I'd like to hear your experiences as well ! Look forward to hearing from you ! Take care, and Peace out to all ! Mr. Flipper
My Older Witness Mom Admits to me - "It's a Man's Organization "
by flipper 25 Replies latest jw friends
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flipper
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Lady Zombie
There is a woman I grew up with who married an abusive man (also a JW). I guess he beat the crap out of her on a regular basis. Her whole family is JW as is his.
First she went to her parents for advice. Her father's an elder. They both told her to go back and "work it out." That she has her kids to think of and how Jehovah hates divorce, blah blah blah.
When it continued, her father told her to go to her congregation's elders. They asked the husband who initially denied it, then said he was sorry. Technically he lied to the elders by denying it. Anyway, the elders told her that he's sorry and that they should work it out. From then on, they treated her as a typical "hysterical and melodramic "female."
I guess one night he beat her so bad that she had to run. It was only when her parents saw how badly she was beaten that they told her they would support her decision.
So yeah, the general consensus of the elders was just to work it out.
Sadder part was that this woman was so messed up emotionally that in a moment of weakness that she very much regretted, she had a one night stand with someone she worked with. Even though she was repentant, she was disfellowshiped.
The abusive ex-husband gloated about it to their children, bragging that he was now scripturally free to remarry because their mom was "an adultress."
The woman was reinstated later. I can't believe she came back after all that. But now she's remarried to another JW. This one seems to treat her very well though.
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Hope4Others
So- I hope my mom thinks on this in regards to other things happening in the witnesses ; but it verified for me what I've suspected about my mom - she DOES see through the BS in regards to the elders and is open minded enough to have admitted it to me . So have any of you had a revealing admission by your witness parents before - where you saw that the light had turned on for them in regards to the fallacies of the witness organization
That's the best news I've heard....She really held that in for a very long time, I'm glad she See's things just are not right.
I could probably tell you lots of stories of the opposite where the elders even encouraged separating to some sisters...it seems to depend on if your their pet or
not...lol. It is hard for me to really understand this bull that if you follow bible standards you have a good marriage. You really never know what
goes on behind closed doors. The couples you thought seemed so happy you are shocked to find the emotional and physical
abuse. Years ago I would not think a thing could happen like this in God's happy little organization. What false hope and expectations
you believe.
hope4others
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Gill
Flipper - Your Mum is right. It is a very sad thing to see people abuse power, but 9 out of 10 people will abuse power they are given especially if their 'eternal life' or any other well being or benefits of their own are at risk.
No Elder wants back chat from his wife and keeping women 'in their place' has sadly been the objective of many organizations not just the WT Society, but that doesn't make it any less guilty of this abuse.
I'm sorry for your sister but glad she escaped her husband eventually.
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changeling
Flipper: I'm deepley sorry for the abuse your poor sister went though. I hope she is doing well today.
As for your mom, perhaps she is slowly waking up. But hey, even if she never makes it all the way out, at least you have a decent relashionship with her.
As for spousal abuse and the elders attitude towards it, I witnessed several friends who suffered different types and levels of abuse from their husbands. I also saw how the elders would have preferred to handle almost any other problem. They try to minimize and turn a blind eye to spousal abuse. Two of the womwn in question ended up cheating on their husbands to get out of the marriage and had thier names dragged through the mud while thier abusive, ass hole husbands played the martyr card. Trully sickening.
changeling
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flipper
LADY ZOMBIE- The elders always try to excuse abusive conduct by a husband by saying to the wife to " work it out ", or " Jehovah hates a divorcing ". Doing that ( taking her husband back ) , certainly hurt this woman you described, as her husband beat her even worse ! I really feel for this woman as her husband tried to smear her reputation to her children- even though he was rotten to be abusing her !
HOPE 4 OTHERS- Yes, I hope my mom thinks about other injustices that pop up in the organization as well. It really is true that no one knows what goes on behind closed doors ! Oh to be a " fly on the wall " as the expression goes. Some couples seemed happy at the kingdom hall - but at their home it was a much different story when the " painted smiles " would come off !
GILL- Thanks. I'm glad my sister escaped her husband too- eventually. It is sad to see the Watchtower society try to put " women in their place " by allowing abusive treatment of them by men. It's disgusting. The organization actually stirs up conditions that promote it in my opinion ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper -
jamiebowers
Do you think my sister's husband would have been DFed for just the spousal abuse if adultery and drug abuse wasn't involved ?
No, I don't. My jw husband was physically abusive and did crazy things like drive into oncoming traffic just to terrorize me. He bought pornography and performed bizzare sex acts on himself and still didn't come close to being df'd. He would cry and say how sorry he was, and the elders would tell me to be a better wife and wait on Jehovah. One even had the nerve to tell me that if he did kill me that at least I was guaranted to make it into the new system.
From what I hear, he remains a jw in good standing. I was df'd for refusing to stay married to him or wait around to see whether he would decide to commit adultery or murder, in spite of the fact that he was locked up against his will in a mental institution by his doctor and a judge who ruled him a credible threat to my life. I often wonder if he visits my jw mom, you know, the same mother who shuns me.
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hillbilly
Take that admission for what it is worth, Flip.
Corner and elder about some of the boneheaded crap the BOE he sat on caused. I got caught up in a sitution that got me blackballed and slandered... After pouting about it I talke to a couple of the guys about it...and asked for a simply apology.
NO apology... but ... "we are not perfect,we are just men, we make mistakes",,,,what, the appointed by the Holy Spirit and your copping out with that?
Yea.. it thats the official party line on that stuff... imperfection equals absoulution when they ruin a chunk of your life.
Hill
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flipper
CHANGELING- Thanks for the kind words for my sister. She is hanging in there , she still has emotional struggles and is on medication after her stroke , but I think she'll make it. I do have a great relationship with my mom. It is truly sickening how elders will make a HUGE deal about adultery- but a woman can get beat to a pulp , and the woman is counseled to be a better wife ! Do I hear " double standard " loud and clear ??
JAMIE BOWERS- I agree with you. A man will always get away as a Jehovah's Witness with abusing his wife. It's just not taken seriously enough like it should be ! I'm so sorry you suffered my friend in an awful marriage that you experienced ! Those elders were disgusting in not upholding you ! I truly hope you are having a much more settled and peaceful life now .
HILLBILLY- Yeah, I hear you. The elders never apologize. Just go to the " we are imperfect " card over and over again , like damned puppets. Shows you they really don't have holy spirit guiding them. Typical party line stuff. Sorry you were maligned by them -
LongHairGal
I definitely observed that it is, in fact, a man's organization. A good ol' boys club. They are hooked on the old testament and favor it over the new testament and Jesus's ministry. They like its patriarchal laws and legalisms. This justifies how they would like to behave.
I also heard stories of women who were so abused they fled from their horrible husbands only to end up having an affair for which they were disfellowshipped. Then the reject husband ended up looking good because he didn't violate any 'laws'. This is what is really sick.
LHG