update...husband made appt. with the elders, what do you think of this?....

by New light for you 51 Replies latest jw experiences

  • New light for you
    New light for you

    OK... so my husband felt bad that the elders wanted to meet with us and he wasn't responding... so HE set it up for saturday at 2 even though EVERYONE said DONT meet with them. oh ya, and everyone said NOT to meet with them at your house, but again, he didn't want to rock the boat. It's funny, though he was the first one to leave, he's still afraid and doesn't want to "raise any red flags" he's willing to just say "we're discouraged, can you just leave us alone fora while" Feel free to yell at him (robert7).

    Here's the thing. I'm a little torn. My girlfriend wrote me a letter finally saying if i just fade , she'll stay my friend. She's insistant that if we just go to meetings "no one will chase you down". She's so nieve, and mistaken.

    My instincts are such... right now... i want to go to the meeting and immediately say.. " i do NOT believe in the society or the faithful and discreet slave. i do not beieve this is the true religion. I am willing to walk away- i have no interst in bringing anyone down, and if i'm out of site, they will have no desire to contact me. How come i think you will find it necessary to throw me out?

    THAT is all i want to say. I can then say "i hear the kids calling me" or somehting... and let them answer husband. I CANT LIE. Husband said that he could say "I believe in the faithful and discreet slave, but we're discouraged". .. what CRAP!! If I"m MAD cuz they SO lied to me, how dare i return with a lie? i'm better than them!!!!!

    ANyway, I'm sure to go to hell if i were to say that... right? what would be my consequences? any elders out there?

  • New light for you
    New light for you

    sorry, i missquoted myself... my friend said if we just DONT go to meeting, noone will hunt us down....

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I've always wanted to tell an elder that I take my leadership from my husband and walk out.

  • BreakingAway
    BreakingAway
    My instincts are such... right now... i want to go to the meeting and immediately say.. " i do NOT believe in the society or the faithful and discreet slave. i do not beieve this is the true religion. I am willing to walk away- i have no interst in bringing anyone down, and if i'm out of site, they will have no desire to contact me. How come i think you will find it necessary to throw me out?

    ANyway, I'm sure to go to hell if i were to say that... right? what would be my consequences? any elders out there?

    Well , I stepped down as an elder just a couple of years ago and I can tell you that sadly you'll be viewed as an apostate just for uttering those simple words.It would be an exceptional elder that would not try to pursue disfellowshipping as anyone who holds such views is considered a threat to the spirituality of the congregation.They will say that regretfully they have to keep the "congregation clean" and any threatening influence must be removed."A little leaven spoils the whole lump."You gave into "apostate" material and thinking and you brought it on yourself." This is how they've been trained to think.

    Initially, they WILL try to change your mind and get you to admit that your thinking is wrong as the apostate material has infected your thinking.Likely, a study program with someone will be recommended.Only by openly admitting that you're wrong and that "this really is the troof" will you be able to avoid being disfellowshipped.Unfortunately, even after that, you will be viewed with suspicion and a skeptical eye.If it all sounds extreme...it's because it is.They hate independence, everyone must either think the same or keep their mouth shut.The dark ages are still alive and "well".

  • SnakesInTheTower
    SnakesInTheTower

    NLFY:

    what would be my consequences? any elders out there?

    former elder here.... consequences? the more interactions that you have with elders, the more chances there will be that you will slip and say something that will be laser focused on by the elders as "apostate leanings" and give them cause for further digging into your personal life.

    My suggestion: If your husband insists on meeting at your home, take advantage of home turf. Make sure that both of you have your story straight on what you will and will not say. Usuually the BOE will send in two elders for a "Shepherding Call" (aka Gestapo Visit). Often, one elder will play "good cop" and the other will be the "bad cop"...its a tag team effort. It is not organized this way in any manual or training I ever received...its just the natural progression of things. The BOE will have one hard nosed ass of an elder that wants to bust someone, so they will assign a more, umm, kind elder to offset the ass. Good cop elder will often take the lead, but then bad cop elder will start in on you. After a bit of this, good cop will backpedal a little and give you some breathing room...watch...as bad cop elder is getting wound up, good cop elder will put his hand on his arm and gently interrupt and move the conversation back a little..... (which was I? I was the good cop, but I didnt play by the BOE's rules...if someone told me something in confidence, I kept it to myself...if asked by the BOE if anything was said that indicated apostate thinking, I would deny having heard anything like that...but then again...I was never one to walk to the Borg lockstep.... there is a member on this board that I did this for multiple times....that person was eventually DF for apostasy by the entire BOE....and the appeal was upheld)

    Here is where it gets tricky for YOU...When these Gestapo Visits occur, .it is usually bad cops idea to separate you two. Bad cop will take your husband aside...often at the end of the visit as you all walk outside as they are leaving.... and as spiritual head of your family, lay into him for not taking the spiritual lead. Meanwhile, good cop elder is talking with you .....trying to calmly "reassure" you, while what he is really trying to do is to get you to slip up. When the visit is over, the two elders will compare notes, then bring the result of their visit back to the BOE for further evaluation. If it is detected that one or both of you has a crack in your resolve to stay away, a follow up visit will be scheduled to chip away at your resistance. If either of you said anything at all that sets off the Apostaradar...watch out....if you express any kind of doubt, or if you dont give a wholehearted support of the FDS, that is a red flag for the elders.

    As long as you dont say anything about "not believing" or "having doubts" or not supporting the FDS (aka GB), then you may be able to avoid any JC action. Say the wrong thing when asked about your thoughts....and dont believe for one second that what you say is "just wanting to know what is on your mind" without serious consequences (DA/DF). When asked about meetings, stick with generalities, such as "we are so busy with {insert everyday necessary activity, work, school, kids, etc} that sometimes we get home and its all we can do just to cook dinner, help the kids with homework and crash" or "we are very {tired, depressed, worn out}...this old system sure beats up, dont you agree?" Same with field circus... "by the time the weekend comes, we are so far behind with {insert chore.... yard work, laundry, maintenance}, that the only time we can get this done is on Saturday"..... or "the pressures of the old world of just paying for gas and utilities, putting food on the table, etc. cause us to have to work {two jobs, overtime, etc}....you know how it is...." Good cop will be empathetic, bad cop will take a hard tact.....see if i am right on this...

    And yes, you can be DF in absentia... I suspect one day not too far in the future that non attendance at meetings or becoming inactive in the Field Circus will result in being labeled DA (since by JW definition, you are not Witnessing about Jehovah)..... and faders will be DA and not know anything about it until it is announced that "Brother Snakes is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" (though it does have a nice ring, dont you think? )

    bottom line to my long-winded reply: THE LESS CONTACT YOU HAVE WITH THE ELDERS, THE LESS LIKELY THEY CAN PIN ANYTHING ON YOU....just my opinion...

    Snakes ()

  • CandleLight
    CandleLight

    New Light:

    You said:

    My instincts are such... right now... i want to go to the meeting and immediately say.. " i do NOT believe in the society or the faithful and discreet slave. i do not beieve this is the true religion. I am willing to walk away- i have no interst in bringing anyone down, and if i'm out of site, they will have no desire to contact me. How come i think you will find it necessary to throw me out?

    I am not an elder, but my husband and I recently(Spring 2007) said something similar in a meeting with Elders who came to our house. They immediately wanted to hold a committee meeting, to which we refused. At that point the PO screams over the Phone to my husband. Then they start to try and get us to say "I no longer Consider myself one of Jehovah's Wittnesses".. It was really sad to see them try and manipulate our words. Within two weeks they had recieved a letter from WBTS saying we had "disassociated ourselves by our actions".

    Despite how hard it was, I would do it all over again. We felt great for standing up and speaking the truth and for God. We left all the lies and deceptions to them. We posses better values then that, and they no longer have an ounce of control over us.

    You and your husband will be in my prayers.

    CL

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    I wouldn't be so stuck on this "lying" thing. Many enlightened people think something is only a lie if the person saying it gains something at the expense of others. For example, say a husband knows his wife is extremely sensitive about her weight. She puts on a dress which makes her look fat and asks her husband if it makes her look fat. If the husband says "yes", she would likely start crying or even go into hysterics. If he says "not at all", he didn't really personally benefit at her expense to any measure. He kept from hurting her and/or getting her mad at him.

    If you tell the elders you still believe in the FDS but just want to be left alone for a while, there is no "expense of others" to the elders that occurs. Yeah, you are gaining something (peace of mind), but not at THEIR expense.

    If God would send you to hell for that, then start shopping around for a new God, because the elders would certainly send you to hell if you told them the absolute truth: the FDS is a lying sack of false prophet shit!

    Farkel

  • Hope4Others
    Hope4Others
    Then they start to try and get us to say "I no longer Consider myself one of Jehovah's Wittnesses".. It was really sad to see them try and manipulate our words. Within two weeks they had recieved a letter from WBTS saying we had "disassociated ourselves by our actions".

    I really find this hard to swallow, how they can get away with this...like missile seekers hunting you down.

    Even if you have done nothing to instigate these actions. This really boggles the mind at times.

    I guess our day will be coming...........

    hope4others

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    Me and my wife had an experience that was quite smilier to yours.

    If you want to fade, just listen to their "encouragement", nod your heads, and say you will try to make meetings and service. you don't have to actually come through on those promises in fact if you don't come through they will more than likely start to write you off as a lost cause.

    Of course if you just tell them off like you describe you are going to be DF'd. And guess what, IT WON'T BE A QUICK PROCESS!. They will question you for hours about your doubts and such.

    So play the phony and just go through the meeting or write a letter that says your done. Other than that expect to go through hell with them.

  • LockedChaos
    LockedChaos

    Always be true to yourself! No matter how much pressure someone tries to apply to you, you do NOT have to cave into it. You decide where everyone will sit. Have your husband do this. Be sure to sit across from each other. Look at each other and nod when your spouse is talking. When they speak, look at the person not speaking. Look them in the eye. It's very un-nerving, for them. If by your nature you are a truthful person, stay true to that nature. If anyone tries to manipulate you into mis speaking or divulging information that you don't wish to reveal, simply ignore them. The more forceful they become, the more you deflect, let it bounce off and just change the subject. Discuss this with your partner in advance. Only talk about what you want. They can't read your minds. As your being spoken to, tilt your head slightly to one side or the other. If your body language is being read, this will indicate interest and concern. When you then speak hold your head straight and make direct eye contact. Speak very softly, this is important. Make them strain to listen. No matter how upset you may get, don't let it show. Keep control of the time frame. Remember, you don't have to do or say anything!! Do not engage in debates or in confessions. Neither will accomplish anything.

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