Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

by Dogpatch 501 Replies latest jw friends

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  kurtbethel

  "My favorite was his classic about "tacking into the wind." In that article, he destroyed any credibility the WTS may have had by revealing their secret: that no one at WT HQ had divine direction, nor any clue as to what they were talking about; that they were all just feeling their way along like blind mice looking for their tails. Or is it "the blind leading the blind?" That was adapted from one of his service talks."

  I was amazed when I read that story. It brought to mind Ephesians 4:14 which says "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

  I was astonished, it was if they tipped their hand in that story.

  Great thread here. It really puts a human face on the whole experience for me.
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  james_woods

  One of the silliest parts of "tacking into the wind" was that full-page Watchtower illustration (beautifully engraved, BTW) of a square-rigged clipper ship bearing down at about 20 knots in full sail.

  This was "tacking into the wind"? No, that was running before the wind in full sail.

  Very little understanding of how a rig and keel sailboat works when working against the wind.
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  TheListener

  Now all we need is a current long time Bethelite to defect and bring copies of the Governing Body meeting minutes with him.
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  Seeker4

  Tom and others,
  
  Were you ever in a Brooklyn congregation with Kathleen Campbell? English speaking single sister? She was close friends with Leo Greenlees.
  
  Kathleen retired to Vermont to be near her daughter, and that's how we got to know Greenlees, when he came up to visit.
  
  S4
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  Champion

  Warren..Did Donna Fried stay a JW..I knew her, she used to hang out with one of my brothers.
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  Dogpatch

  cab sez...

  So while Ray Franz ("anointed") and Ed Dunlap ("other sheep") were assigned (by Karl Adams, Writing Department Overseer and also "other sheep") to write study articles and study books, Karl was assigned to write articles for Awake about things like dung beetles and banana trees. Other writers told me that it used to burn him up with envy. So he played a key role in the 1980 "Franz/Dunlap" incident, thus eliminating his rivals. Finally, he got to write some "outstanding" Watchtower study articles. My favorite was his classic about "tacking into the wind." In that article, he destroyed any credibility the WTS may have had by revealing their secret: that no one at WT HQ had divine direction, nor any clue as to what they were talking about; that they were all just feeling their way along like blind mice looking for their tails. Or is it "the blind leading the blind?" That was adapted from one of his service talks. (I'll bet Karl Adams was ready to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge when that one got published.) Yes, Karl was one of a kind, a true "Watchtower man."

  This is what rocks the boat of every JW, to hear stories like this. From then on, you must make a choice: feed the dissonance and keep fooling yourself, or stop the bus! I've got to get off. Loonies!! Bethel cured me of the Watchtower. Once you lose all respect for these old men in diapers, it's over for any serious religious experience. You are simply remaining in a stupid, poorly run corporate bureaucracy with no imagination and no hope. There is life outside the WT, folks!

  Randy
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  Awakened at Gilead

  Randy: Great thread... this has brought up many memories... even though I was at Bethel from 89 to 92...

  I remember the Saunascapades... a good friend of mine would go religiously every week (Luis Navarro... anyone know him?) and would tell me stories about sitting in the sauna naked with Freddy and Karl Klein too.

  Comment for Mary: (adding to what others have said)

  I was raised by an "anointed" brother. He got his publications just like the rest of us... no special communication there. I asked him about it recently. He said that he was of the domestics, so the GB does the feeding... although sometimes he has thought of some new idea, and, lo and behold, some time later, it gets published! (He must believe that the FDS has some sort of collective consciousness, then, lol)

  Comment for Tom:

  One of the big surprises for me at Bethel was to find out that the vast majority of the material in the publications, including study articles in the Watchtower, study books and any other thing that could possibly be construed by JWs as "New Light" is written, published and enforced by "other sheep". The only notable exception besides Ray Franz was Freddie Franz, and you could always detect his stuff a mile away because its style is what one would expect from an author who was given to fantasy fiction.
  
  ...
  
  In the mid-70, when I was at Bethel, my friend Dan Sydlik told me that the other sheep of John 10 were the Gentiles. That made so much sense to me, and it fit so well with the actual state of affairs, that I rejected the two-class fiction then and there, even when I thought that the WTS was still God's organization.
  
  Tom

  I realized the same things when I went through Gilead. As I sat through a propaganda talk by Carey Barber (who in his late 90's could barely even think) and who just read off his notes, I came to the same conclusion. The talk was called "The 1900 Year Old FDS", and I was unsatisfied with the description, which didn't match reality. I realized from my Gilead stay that almost everyone in writing was of the OS... so how could they say that the FDS feeds everyone else? The GB fulfills most of what they apply to the FDS class... this is when I started waking up in Gilead.

  When we got top the book of John and we reviewed the meaning, I discovered that Christendom teaches that teh OS are the Gentiles. This made so much sense to me that I couldn't get it out of my mind. Additionally, the idea of 2 classes of Christians is not taught in the Bible... I could see this from reading the Bible twice in 8 months...

  Now I'm upset that good ole Dan Sydlik didn't believe in the OS doctrine either... what a hypocrite for going along with the fake religious system all those years until he died.

  A@G
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  Mary

  Between this thread and ISoCF, I'm starting to think that Karl Klein was either manic depressive, or had borderline personality disorder or maybe a combination of the two.......God----he really sounds like he was mentally unstable.

  Tom asked: Was that in Toronto that your parents were married by Leo? He looks so young, but I recognize the face.

  Yep.....I hadn't realized that Greenlees was a Canuck.
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  Awakened at Gilead

  Mary: Between this thread and ISoCF, I'm starting to think that Karl Klein was either manic depressive, or had borderline personality disorder or maybe a combination of the two.......God----he really sounds like he was mentally unstable.

  He did have a nervous breakdown.... that's in his published story...

  Interesting Excerpts: (I've never forgoten these quotes)

  ***w8410/1p.24‘JehovahHasDealtRewardinglyWithMe’***

  Once, due to some misunderstanding, it was wrongly reported to Brother Rutherford that I had made a very critical remark about him. However, rather than becoming indignant, he remarked: "Well, Karl talks a lot, and he says things he doesn’t mean."...

  Due to inherited weaknesses and my impulsive nature, my life has had its share of trials and tribulations, including a nervous breakdown after I had been at Bethel for nine years. At that time, Psalm 103 truly was comforting to me, as well as Paul’s words at Romans 7:15-25. It might be added that I have had more than my share of mishaps, such as a broken kneecap, fractured vertebrae, and so forth. Both my own failings and those of others have kept my life from being all "smooth sailing." But with Jehovah’s help I have come to appreciate the fact that ‘if he permits it, I can take it,’ as indicated at 1 Corinthians 10:13. Also, ‘the less I live, the more I can give.’ Among other lessons I have had to learn is the need to cultivate "a waiting attitude for the God of my salvation," and to be willing to conduct myself as "a lesser one."—Micah 7:7; Luke 9:48....

  Jehovah has kept me from making very serious mistakes. He has done this through his angels, his providence and the help provided not only by mature brothers but also by ever so many fine Christian "Abigails." It may be added that I am thankful to Jehovah that when I was spiritually weak the opportunity for yielding to temptation did not lie close at hand and that when it did I was spiritually strong enough not to yield. In other words, the inclination toward wrongdoing and the opportunity for it never coincided, for Jehovah knew that at heart I really wanted to keep doing the right thing. How grateful I am that errors are not what Jehovah watches!

  BTW, I'm not in the same boat as Karl... the opportunity and the inclination always seemed to coincide, lol.

  A@G
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  jookbeard

  Tell me guys, how did/do they G/b members and Bethel elders/over sears etc let their hair down? Did they go to the movies, shoot some pool, watch the Giants?, have a kick around in Central Park ?