SHOULD SUSAN ATKINS BE RELEASED FROM PRISON?

by Mary 63 Replies latest social current

• 

  carla

  Does forgiving someone mean they must not pay a debt?

  In stories of parents who 'forgive' the person who murdered their child they may forgive them in their heart but they do not suggest they should be let out of prison to kill again or that they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

  You can forgive your ex spouse for their infidelities but that doesn't mean you take them back.

  You can forgive your rapist but that doesn't mean you want to befriend them or let them back out on the street to harm others.

  You forgive your child some wrong but they still have consequences for their actions.

  Often 'forgiveness' is more for the victim or the family so they can go on in life without the hate eating away at them, not necessarily for the perpetrators benefit.
• 

  james_woods

  At the very minimum, we learn to suppress the "monster inside".

  For example, remember the thread about the JW father who got DFd for beating the holy stuffings out of his daughters abusing husband? (brought "reproach upon Jehovah's name") IIRC.

  Now, don't you think it flashed through his mind for one moment - " I am just going to kill this SOB and put an end to it "?

  But, even in that extreme circumstance - he did not. Put him well and properly into the hospital, but did not kill him. Many here posted that they might have just killed him themselves. But they almost certainly would not have either.

  What this Atkins person did is far worse morally --- it was a vanity killing to please her cult Guru. She had no real feelings for or against the victims...she just wanted a cold-hearted validation as being part of the group. Murder one versus Justifiable Homicide.

  Normal people do not create nor permit such monstrous thinking in their minds.
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  BurnTheShips

  Well, I have heard the expression 'every man (or woman) is capable of anything', and while I agree in the main part, the 'monster' that lives in the sociopath is very different, and very few of us have it.

  I must have led a very insulated life to date, I've had hardship but very little exposure to evil (unlike my wife), the things I see that have happened to so many here is almost completely incomprehensible to me. I want to blow up the *^&^%ing planet I get so angry but where to direct it? I can't stop what has already happened and I can't change the past.

  BTS
• 

  Gregor

  I think when we start trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the criminal by taking into consideration their own abuse as a child or how long they have aleady suffered in prison and even their terminal illness - we are getting into a bog of empathy that reveals more about our own innocence and insecurities than anything else. We are not qualified to make these decisions nor should we be. We live under a system of law. Very imperfect, but the only thing between us and chaos. As someone said above, if anyone's opinion should be considered by the law, it is the families of the victims.

  I remember the day the Lobianco murders broke on the news and then the murders at Sharon Tate's home. Enough to make you physically ill. Did you know that when Sharon Tate was pleading for her baby's life she had been strung up by a rope around her wrists that had been thrown over an exposed beam? She was butchered like a pig.

  Come on people, think of something else to make you feel noble and forgiving. Susan Atkins isn't worthy of your thoughts.
• 

  hillary_step

  Gregor,

  I think when we start trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the criminal by taking into consideration their own abuse as a child or how long they have aleady suffered in prison and even their terminal illness - we are getting into a bog of empathy that reveals more about our own innocence and insecurities than anything else.

  I understand what you are saying, and in many ways agree but you need to feed into this factor the theory and practice of understanding the nature of crime. The reason why this is necessary is that society can be better protected if we recognize the signs of what leads a person to commit crime.

  Six is quite right. Had the signs been noted in the early years of a Manson, he may now be hailed as one of the heroes in our society rather than one of its most henious criminals. Environment is important in all our emotional development, but especially so to the sociopathic personality.

  I am ambivelent toward Atkins. She is as far removed from my life in every way as I want her to be, and as you note the Law can only be a tool of approximation. We have however moved a long way from the days, historically quite recent, as to when we hung people for stealing apples, or transported them for stealing linen from the Master, or castrated them for being a diffeent color to ourselves. It is not due to revengful attitudes that these changes for the better have taken place, but by putting into place tried and tested legal paradigms.

  In our own minds we need to try to separate the personal feelings of outraged revenge, from greater needs of a social community. Sometimes these elements combine in some good, often they do not.

  It is progessive thinking that leads to a fairer society, and while the law is an approximate tool, so too are the hopeful enterprises that lead to a more civilized society. Along the way both have made mistakes and both have had their successes.

  Bugliosi himself has no issue with Atkins being released at this stage and he was the professional who prosecuted her and coped with the misery of the victims families first hand. As far as I am concerned he knows better than I what should be done.

  HS
• 

  Hortensia

  If you can't do the time don't do the crime. Why don't I speed? I can't afford the ticket. I don't really believe that speed causes crashes, I think it makes crashes worse, but stuff like tailgating and lane changes without signaling and that sort of thing causes the crashes. Just the same I don't speed. If you don't want to go to jail for life, don't commit those crimes. Notice too that alcohol, drug addiction, and/or really nasty gangs/cults are often involved as well. So watch out for the way you behave when you drink, take drugs, or hang out with really evil people.

  Also, prison is as much for safeguarding the public as for punishing the criminal. We have the right to go about our daily lives without fear of those kinds of people. The absolute only reason I could see for letting her go now would be finances. If it would save the taxpayer money to let her family take care of her now that she has a terminal illness, well I could go along with that.
• 

  Mary

  Big Tex said: Seriously now ... how does someone live with themselves after being involved in such a horrific crime?

  Just take a look in her eyes. When they first caught Karla, I instantly remembered a line from Jaws when Quint said to Brody: "...the thing about a shark... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living..."

  I think that describes Karla Homolka to a T.
• 

  SixofNine

  Other topics aside, I'm a bit amazed at how many of us here have read Helter Skelter. My father had the paperback, which is odd in itself because my father had a pretty limited book selection once you got outside of things published by the Watchtower society. Mostly car repair manuals, nature documentary, organic gardening tomes (before it was cool) and the occasional National Geo take on history. I remember being fascinated by the book as a kid, especially the picture section, which if I remember correctly did not actually show gruesome images of the bodies, but did show the blood smeared writing on the walls.

  Bugliosi also wrote the definitive book on the OJ Simpson case, Outrage. Suffice it to say, had Bugliosi been prosecuting the case, Simpson would be behind bars right now.

  I hope as many of us, and more, read his latest book titled The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder in which he makes the case that a President can be prosecuted for murder when he lies to the American people into a war that was unnecessary.
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  hillary_step

  Six,

  I hope as many of us, and more, read his latest book titled The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder in which he makes the case that a President can be prosecuted for murder when he lies to the American people into a war that was unnecessary.

  Yes, I have read this book Six, and he does make a compelling case for Presidential prosecution. What is missing in Western Politics is the accountability that a natural sense of justice demands. If a person feared a life in jail as a judgement against irresponsibly causing the death of others by their decisions, as do workers in many other situations in life, they would I am sure think far more carefully before experimenting with a dangerous and badly planned political ideology.

  Bugliosi argues, as do I, that politicians should have no greater exemption from prosecution than do any other workers whose irresponsible actions leads to the death of others.

  Good for him.

  HS
• 

  Mary

  Bugliosi also wrote the definitive book on the OJ Simpson case, Outrage. Suffice it to say, had Bugliosi been prosecuting the case, Simpson would be behind bars right now.

  I read this book a few years ago and you're right-----had Bugliosi been the prosecutor, OJ would be sitting in a jail cell right now instead of playing golf every day.

  I hope as many of us, and more, read his latest book titled The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder in which he makes the case that a President can be prosecuted for murder when he lies to the American people into a war that was unnecessary.

  I've never read that one, but thanks for the heads up....I think I'll buy it.