Slim, I knew many folks just like you described above. In fact, to many JW's where we lived, my wife and I were viewed this same way too.
I'd say most JW's are sincere in their beliefs as well.
BUT... what will change your opinion of any JW (including those you have elevated to sainthood), is when you GET INTO A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE EXACT ISSUES THEMSELVES.
Watch and see what happens then.
Something you have obviously yet to do. And if you wish to fade, you may never do.
You see, I did JUST THAT once I had become enlightened to what the whole JW picture entailed.
I did not just hand in a letter saying goodbye to JW's. I opened up my house to discuss everything that I had come to learn about which damaged the, "JW's Are The One True Faith" and "God is using the Faithful and Discreet Slave today" self-applied titles and claims that we as JW's were taught to believe and accept.
Let me tell you something; I had the best of the best come to my house. I spoke on the phone with many more for over a month's time. Stellar reputation after reputation went straight into the DUMPSTER. No exaggerations. I couldn't believe what I was hearing from these lifetime, devoted, active, stellar reputation elders, pioneers and more.
These folks could not intelligently address the issues themselves. NOT EVEN ONE TIME. I found the discussions embarrassingly lopsided against the JW's. Programmed, typical JW responses over and over. Initially I did not know what to expect, but after just a few days it became very clear that devoted, gifted, intelligent, charismatic, experienced JW's could not even come close in justifying all those mistakes, flip-flops, false predictions, medical disasters and more that have filled the JW's entire 100 plus year existence.
How could God be behind those things when first published as JW policies at risk of disfellowshipping, I asked? Only then to have these same things eventually be proven wrong, dropped altogether, adjusted and even apologized for.
"Just Wait for the light to get brighter", was the same old reply each and every time.
What about the people that have died following JW policies on vaccinations, organ transplants, blood, alternative service and more, I would ask?
"Jehovah can resurrect all that have died", was the same reply I'd hear again and again. I could not believe it. Sure, God can fix what the WT Society has broken, I said.
"Just wait on Jehovah", I'd hear again and again.
Over 65 years on blood is a pretty long time to wait, don't you think?
You can find my DA letter by going to my bio page and see the exact issues I brought up.
I have said before that the one thing I at times miss is how everything is simpler as a JW. Everything is laid out for you and you are told what's what. No need to think for yourself or contemplate too deeply about weightier issues. What does WT say? What is in print? What does Society say? And there you go, most all answers all laid out in printed form. Sometimes it's just easier to follow along.
But that is not how it really is now is it?
Life is much more about finding things out. About your own personal journey in this world. About thinking for yourself and coming to your own conclusions, through sincere examinations rather than following the ever-changing rules of the "Boys From Brooklyn".
Just bring up some of these specific JW issues to those two you think so highly of and watch what happens to their reputation before your very eyes.
I have been there and done that already. Which is one clear advantage of disassociating rather than fading away. I was able to see what these folks were made of.
It will change the way you think about these people altogether.
Go ahead, test them and see.
All the best,
vinny
People who make the truth EXCITING!
by slimboyfat 79 Replies latest jw friends
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Vinny
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LockedChaos
Personally, I'm in agreement with much of what is being said
in this thread.
With that being said, you must be true to yourself.
If your EDUCATED conscience tells you that the things that
you have learned regarding the "Society" are true and
in fact you have been subjected to control and manipulation
you owe it to yourself to not be taken in by emotion and catch phrases.
Those you speak of are probably very sincere.
Everything taught by JW's is not necessarily a lie. That does not grant
them the right to use know techniques for control.
You do not need an organization in order to be a Christian,
if in fact that is what you wish.
Dazzle them with BRILLIANCE or BAFFLE them with BU**SH**. Playing
with emotions, no matter the cause, is wrong in my book!!
Use that brain of yours for some rational thinking. -
Tired of the Hypocrisy
You feel the way you do. And...you are going to do whatever you are going to do. I have to say that what you describe sounds alot like what my folks would go thru a few times a year. The bs would pile up and my folks would cool off. YAY no more meetings! Then the co would come and we'd be on the list of callbacks. He would come, charm my folks and poof back to the hall we go, and then my da would throw out the televisions. Then more bs would pile up, my mom would tell dad to buy us new tv's and they'd cool off. YAY no meetings!!
Then the memorial. We'd get called on by the co or one of his flunkies. My dad would start reading the bible at dinner again until the food got cold. We'd all go to JC Penney's and get a new suit and my mom and sis new dresses and shoess. Then memorial night and then another month of field serve-US and meetings. Then more bs would stink so bad my folks would cool off and the cycle went on and on for decade after decade until my poor dad died. Then we all sort of cooled it.
Please consider the situation seriously and then make a sound and balanced decision.
I wish you luck and happiness.
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hotchocolate
I think a lot of you in responding to this post are dredging up the judgmentalism you were trained in as witnesses.
I think Slimboy makes a good point. I think there CAN be something appealing about the credulous fairytale world of the witnesses. And I think intelligent people are just as susceptible to cult mentality as others.
The key here is that once your eyes have been opened to the deception, I don't believe it's possible to go back. And with the mental freedom that you've gained, why would you want to?
An interesting thread, thanks for starting it. -
JimmyPage
Puke.
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AuldSoul
SBF: They are really genuine, and there is something about them that people respond to. They are more than just good salespeople. They care about people and think they are really doing good.
I understand what you mean, SBF. But there have always been some such ones among the Bible Students and JWs. The organization could not have grown otherwise, even though it has done so at a snail's pace compared to MANY other religions.
Here's a mental exercise that could help with the feelings you are having: Imagine that these two were JUST as enthusiastic about C.T. Russell's Divine Plan of the Ages and the significance of the Testament in Stone at Gizeh. They surely would have been. Now, weigh the merits of intelligence that has been applied to supporting COMPLETELY false doctrine (which we already know from hindsight) and enthusiasm along with caring concern for the welfare of others that has been the emotional draw (devoid of reason) for accepting said sophistry.
Would you consider believing the Divine Plan of Ages if they presented it to you? If so, it is the charisma of this couple that is drawing you, not the message. In that case you can safely dismiss any urge to follow.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
Blueblades
Slim it is an illusion. Remember that they are captives of a concept. You are no longer captive to that concept.
Ask them the two questions. 1) What is the most important scripture in Watchtower Theology? 2 ) What is the most important event in Watchtower History?
Listen to their responses, they should be able to answer those questions correctly.
You already know the answers. They may be very good-hearted persons, however, they are still captives of a concept that is illusionary.
Only you can decide for youself what to do next.
Blueblades
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WTWizard
As for the bad beliefs we all have, that much is true. We do all have wrong beliefs--and that is not what makes the witlesses crazy.
What does make them crazy is that they are not free to choose their bad beliefs. Nor are they free to ditch them if they realize that they are bad and choose no longer to be held down by them. In the world (and in most mainstream religions), people are free to believe bad things, and to alter their beliefs at any time if they realize they are holding them down. For instance, you could believe that the world is flat. If you read that the earth is a sphere, you may not believe it that time. But, in the future, you could change your mind as additional information comes to light.
If you go back to the Washtowel, you will not have that freedom. You are to believe whatever the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger tells you, no matter what. And you are not allowed to alter those beliefs until they change them, under threat of getting in trouble. Meaning, if they tell you that the earth is flat, and you find evidence that it is not, you are required to disregard that evidence and continue believing that the earth is flat. Even with additional information proving that the earth is a sphere, you would be required to throw that information out in favor of whatever the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger tells you. Hence, no freedom to change your beliefs.
Do you want to live in the Second Dark Ages? I can assure you, if you go back to being an active witless and conform to their requirements, you will find yourself there.
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mrsjones5
My cousin, who I love dearly and is a force of nature with a personality that shines and draws people to her, still believes in the crap and is drawing one of her children (who doesn't have autism) deeper into the madness. She is very sincere in her belief, believes it's the truth with her whole heart and represents the love that should be shown by those who say they believe in God. But dispite of my love for her and her goodness I would not go back to the bOrg...I know too much about the real truth of the watchtower.
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penny2
We asked them to come over and visit us next week and I am looking forward to it.
It will be interesting to read how the visit goes. Will you bring up any issues?