Human Rights For Apes?

by hamilcarr 42 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  inkling

  Ink, do you believe you have more right not to be experimented on than an ape?

  This is a really good question, and honestly I am torn. We accept that experimenting
  on humans is ok as long as they volunteer. Obviously apes can't volunteer, but if they
  understood what was at stake, would some of them? Can we afford to wait until they
  achieve a higher lever of sentience to decide these things, or are we at risk of
  losing the best parts of what it means to be human by continuing to use animals as
  mindless tools?

  What if the experiments are not harmful? Can it be seen as their "Career"?
  They didn't choose it, but neither do people living in communistic societies.
  Of course, you can say those humans are not being granted thier human rights either...

  How WOULD a free ape make a living in a modern world? I think acting would be
  a desirable career.

  Why should plants die so that we might live, but animals should not? We are all related,
  and we are stuck in a universe where one must die for another to live

  [inkling]
• 

  inkling

  Why is this so difficult to understand ink?

  I very well might agree with you, but I argue becuase I think your position is somewhat indistinctly stated.

  [ink]
• 

  IP_SEC

  understood what was at stake, would some of them?

  who says they cant ink?

  Im torn too ink. But, I know my druthers. And my druthers'd be that nothin has to die so I can live. Im not going to make excuses that "they arent human so they dont deserve human rights".
• 

  inkling

  And my druthers'd be that nothin has to die so I can live.

  I agree, but what are we supposed to do about that fact that we live in a universe that is NOT like we would rather it to be?

  (oh, and i think you still havn't said if you are or are not a vegetarian)

  [inkling]
• 

  IP_SEC

  but I argue becuase I think your position is somewhat indistinctly stated.

  Not really ink, it is very distinct. There is really no difference betwixt us and them. Animals deserve human rights not because said rights are distinctly human, but because they are right of birth. We are them, and they are us.
• 

  IP_SEC

  no ink,

  I knawed on a pork chop not 5 mins ago.
• 

  inkling

  Im not going to make excuses that "they arent human so they dont deserve human rights".

  I understand what you are trying to say, but this statement is frustrating. BY DEFINITION, apes do not have humans rights-

  They should have ape rights. The real question is what are Ape Rights, (because we are BOTH apes.)
• 

  inkling

  I knawed on a pork chop not 5 mins ago.

  I'm actually not going to call you on this, because I get how contradictory human thought is, including my own.

  I eat meat, and sometimes feel guilty.

  [inkling]
• 

  IP_SEC

  The real question is what ARE Ape Rights, (because we are BOTH apes.)

  You'll get no argument from me there.
• 

  inkling

  You'll get no argument from me there.

  Whew.

  Ok, so we agree that the bigger "bracket" is "Ape Rights", and "human rights" is a subcategory.
  Are there subcategories of Human rights? Should a child have a different set of rights than an adult?
  What about a human born without higher level brain function?

  When I see an ape interacting with humans, they strike me as somewhat childlike, or human-adult-with
  limited -ognitive-function like. Yet we don't experiment on a severely down syndrome person, and how are
  they any different from a bright ape?

  [inkling]