Welcome, Whizkid. You don't mention how old you are, so I'm not sure what your situation is, although you do say your friend is living with her mom. Are you both teenagers, or adults? Is she baptized? The best way to proceed will vary somewhat, depending on your individual circumstances.
Having said that, I suggest a slightly different approach than the one you've been taking so far. Rather than presenting her with evidence/issues that contradict JW teachings and then asking her to refute that information, try choosing an issue and then just asking her a series of intelligent, open-ended questions -- just asking questions, not presenting "anti-JW" information. In doing this, you will start the wheels turning in her own head because it puts her in a position where she needs to come up with reasonable answers to the questions. Choose something that requires some degree of research and thought on her part. Don't contradict, or "judge" the issue -- that will immediately put her on the defensive. Just ask sincerely and simply; her answers will inevitably raise the opportunity for more sincere questions, and you can use this approach to guide her to the answers that you already know -- and that is the key. She must figure it out on her own, not be "told," and you can help her get to that point by asking rather than telling.
One very good site that would benefit you is www.jwfacts.com. There you will find straightforward and reasonable analyses of all kinds of flip-flops and questionable JW doctrines and practices. Depending on what things you've already discussed with your friend, and what topics would be of particular personal import to her, you should be able to arm yourself and develop topics of discussion that will get her to think.
The fact that she has only been involved with the Witnesses for three years is a good thing. Make her use her own reasoning and research to logically "justify" JWism -- it's not possible, and if she's willing to try it with an open mind, that is your best bet imho. Be warned though that it is likely to take a lot of time and thought and patience on your part -- A LOT. Good luck to you :-)
Dating a JW and need some help
by Whizkid 32 Replies latest social relationships
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nameless_one
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disfellowman
i dont know, i didnt read anything except the first post, but know this your relationship will be screwed if she is not ready to at least temporarily leave the witnesses. It may not happen, but this disparity in belief causes ALOT of problems. you could lose the person you love. i have alot of experience in this field, PM me if you wish
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Black Sheep
Until she realises that she has been brought up in a high control cult she is damaged goods.
I know.
I was brought up JW and married an Anglican.
She married damaged goods. Me.
Good luck
Chris -
Shawn10538
If you can get her to leave the cult, fine, but you really should not date a cult member of any cult. there is only a couple of ways it can go down:
1. She leaves the cult and enters counseling from an experienced cult exit counselor and you live happily ever after.
2. You join the cult, wheter now or 20 years from now, if she is in she will never give up trying to get you in. After all she doesn't want you to die at Armageddon. Many men have joinrd the cult after 15 or 20 years of marriage, inexplicably. One of you will wear down eventually, or it will remain a point of contention forever. -
drew sagan
I DID THE SAME EXACT THING!!!!
Back in 1996 I got interested in JW girl who was "confused" about what she wanted to do. Three years later I had joined the religion and her relationship with me was no more. I was totally sucked in.
JWs are trained week after week to believe that they have all of the answers about life, the bible, and truth. They refer to their religion as "the truth". They believe that it can be proven to be the truth through a series of intellectual type arguments that appear to make a rock solid case. In most cases their teachings represent Biblical scholarship that is well over 100 years out of date, but how are you supposed to know that? To a person never that engaged in debating and defending religion their arguments sound plausible. This is how the JWs work. Convince people who have no experience in studying religion, history and the Bible that a handful of people at Watchtower Headquarters have found all the answers. If you have any doubts that most of their arguments are bogus I would suggest you just post questions here about them and we will point you in the right direction. If she is open to researching the faith, provide her with the books Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Raymond Franz. It just doesn't get better than those books. You can even get them as e-books at CommentaryPress.com.
If she does not fully give up the religion, then she will always be a slave to the Watchtower. She must recognize the movement as totally false. If she does not then every day she is away from the religion she will be filled with guilt, guilt which may eventually send her back to the group. There have been a number of people on this board who have told stories of marrying a JW who leaves the faith and swears they will never go back (but does not leave the idea that it is the "truth) and then get the shock of their life when they want to go back to the religion. It is not about physical removal from the group. It has everything to do with getting rid of all the learned behaviors the group has taught a person to live by. If a person stops going to Watchtower meetings but still believes that the Watchtower is at the center of Gods plan they usually do not leave a fulfilled life.
If she leaves the group mentally then you may have a chance together, although it could be rough between you and her family. If she still believes in Watchtower ideas, then you better think about moving on with your life. And I'll say it again, if you start to become interested in any of the religions ideas that she pushes on you, bring your questions here! We can provide you with real answers about any of Jehovah's Witnesses teachings, were they came from, and why they usually don't make any sense. -
S3RAPH1M
(John 4:9) . . .“How is it that you, despite being a Jew, ask me for a drink, when I am a Sa·mar'i·tan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Sa·mar'i·tans.. . .
It seems to me she won't date you because you are a Samaritan, and she claims to be a 'Jew'
(John 4:20) . . .Our forefathers worshiped in this mountain; but YOU people say that in Jerusalem is the place where persons ought to worship. . .
She says her way of worship at the Kingdom Hall is the correct way, and discredits all others
(John 4:21) . . .Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, The hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will YOU people worship the Father.
It doesn't matter where in this physical existence we worship
(John 4:23-24) . . .Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.. . .
Note what Jesus didn't say, you must be a member in the watchtower organization to worship the Father Jehovah, NO! That's not what it says.
(Matthew 11:28-30) . . .Come to me, all YOU who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh YOU. 29 Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls. 30 For my yoke is kindly and my load is light.”
Note there what it doesn't say, 'Come to the watchtower all you who are loaded and toiling down, and they will refresh you' NO! It doesn't say that
I could go on... but it's not necessary -
disfellowman
1. completely off application 2. before the establishment of the christian congregation bzzzzzzz 3. right - but irrelevant 4. irrelevant? 5. extrapolation? wow... you are going to have to come up with better reasoning than that, no offense.
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momzcrazy
Ya'll scared him away!
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Whizkid
Didn't scare me away, I'm still here.
Thanks for all the responses. I didn't think I'd be getting as many as there are. I've been reading through all the responses and doing some research. I do want to know some examples of things to talk/question about, though. Obviously some of their history and their failed 'predictions' and such, but what else? Anything really specific or more general I need to go into?
Also, are there any good Spanish websites/books relating to the JW's? She's Spanish and can't read English very well, and I can't read Spanish that great right now (in school for it though!).If she is open to researching the faith, provide her with the books Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Raymond Franz. It just doesn't get better than those books. You can even get them as e-books at CommentaryPress.com.
Since I'm going to be talking to her tomorrow about it (most likely), I just bought the ebook and have been skimming through it, and from what I've read it's pretty great. Thanks!
You don't mention how old you are, so I'm not sure what your situation is, although you do say your friend is living with her mom. Are you both teenagers, or adults? Is she baptized? The best way to proceed will vary somewhat, depending on your individual circumstances.
I'm 20, and she's 22. She seems more controlled by her sister than anything (who's 27) since she makes all the decisions of the house. I think that's more a cultural thing, though, even though I've been trying to convince her that she should be making her own decisions about living life, etc. Also she's not been baptized as a JW. She said she was baptized as a baby when she was Catholic, though.
I do have a question, though. Since the only people in her family are her, her sister, and her mother, why do they not 'shun' the rest of their family for not being JW's? For example, they all get together almost every weekend for big family stuff, usually involving 20+ people total and always talk to each other and have fun while being two different religions (Catholic, JW). Just wondering.
That's all for now! Thanks everyone! -
xig28
just never give up hope. like many of the people here say be there for her. but of course this may be a bt off topic right now im also involved in the same situation as you are. of course you wont ever join the religion as for me i visited them this past sunday(can you say they were nice which i figured happen) and yea im not one to be convinced well because of my stubborness but i like to get involved and see in the inside of how they work and from there work my way in trying to find answer opposing some of their sayings. thats my situation so far. i hope yours goes better as well. by the way how long have you known her?