I've always wondered if Judas really had a choice in his role of deceiving Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Did he really have any freewill? Since the scriptures had to be fullfilled, was his fate pre-determined by God? That's a pretty raw deal if true. Was it his destiny? I'd like to know your thoughts on this.
Judas Iscariot: Destiny or Fate?
by sacolton 24 Replies latest jw friends
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FreudianSlip
As a JW, that always bothered me too. SOMEBODY was predestined to betray the Christ. The dubs always said something like: he was bad anyway and that's why it ended up being him.
I now console myself in the fact that the Bible is simply a book of sick fairy tales and that there is a good possiblity that Judas never existed.
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snowbird
Hmmm ... shouldn't it be destiny or choice?
I believe Judas had a choice in the matter. True, the Bible foretold that Jesus would be betrayed by a close associate, but it didn't have to be Judas, imo.
Whenever, I get to feeling sorry for Judas, this passage of scripture comes to mind:
From The Message Bible.
John 6: 70 -71 Jesus responded, "Haven't I handpicked you, the Twelve? Still, one of you is a devil!" He was referring to Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. This man—one from the Twelve!—was even then getting ready to betray him.
Since to overthrow (diabolos) is the basic meaning of the Greek word for devil, I take this to mean that Judas knowingly set out on his course.
Sylvia
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Lady Zombie
To me, I've always looked at this issue as one of three possible choices.
1) Judas had freewill. If Judas had freewill, he could have chosen not to betray Jesus. Jesus would have been spared, at least that night. Gee, then how would the prophecy be fulfilled. See #2
2) Since it had already been prophesied, Jesus' fate had to adhere to prophecy. Therefore, Judas had to be the one to betray him (remember the scripture that suggested that Judas was 'caused' to think of betraying him). Judas therefore had no freewill. He had already been selected to be the betrayer. Remember folks, Jehovah not only is omnipotent, he is omniscient as well. He knew what was going to happen, how it would happen, who would do it, etc. How lovely. Predestined to be one of the most despised individuals in history even before his birth.
or
3) The whole thing is a big, nasty, hairy fairy tale and none of it is true.
Cue Jepordary music
"What is 'number three,' Alex?"
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FreudianSlip
LadyZ-
Option 4: Judas knew of the prophecy and since all of these men were trying to convince people that Jesus was God/God's son he deliberately acted in a way that would "fulfill" the prophecy. He didn't truly betray him, he was merely trying to progress the religion.
(This goes in option 1, I suppose because it means it's freewill).
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Lady Zombie
You got a point Ms. Slip!
Hmmm, then that would make Judas instrumental in the salvation of all humankind!!!!!!!! No Judas = No Salvation
Gee, maybe people should stop demonizing him so much!
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FreudianSlip
Well, I was going more from the standpoint that he was trying to convince people that this religion they made up was real by fulfilling the "prophecy".
I tend to believe that Jesus, a mere man, in an attempt to help or unify his people sort of invented this movement. His 12 henchmen knew this and maybe Judas, in an attempt to further this religion.. fulfilled the prophecy.
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Lady Zombie
I was watching some History Channel special on apocryphal books/scrolls of the bible and supposedly there is a gospel according to Judas in which it was suggested that Jesus' "betrayal" was pre-arranged secretly between him and Judas in order to fullfil the prophecy.
Carbon dating experts said it checked out and looked to be authentic.
I still don't believe in any of it, but I thought it was very interesting. The special also got into how the various books and gospels got into the final version of the bible.
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FreudianSlip
I think I've seen that special. I love the history channel!
I still don't believe in any of it
That Jesus was a highly charasmatic man trying to unify his people through religion? Or that there exists a gospel according to Judas?
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Finally-Free
What was there to "betray" anyway? The religious leaders had already decided they wanted Jesus dead. There was no shortage of witnesses to his activities. Why did they pay Judas 30 pieces of silver? Just to tell them which park Jesus would be hanging out in that night?
W