by sacolton 24 Replies latest jw friends
I think there was probably a Jesus, but he was yes, a man, like Ghandi. Just a man who felt a need to bring dignity and power to the common man, so to speak. Since he preached anti-authoritarian ideals, he was persecuted by the ruling class.
Nothing new under the sun here.
Other than that, I don't believe in the whole god(s), supernatural, eye in the sky stuff.
Oh okay LadyZ, I concur.
I believe Judas had the wrong idea who Jesus really was. He wanted someone who could raise a revolution and fight the Romans, but that was not the intention of Jesus. If Judas really knew of the plan, why would he bother to hang himself from guilt? If he was just playing along - he wouldn't have committed suicide.
You assume he really did commit suicide. Maybe he faked his death! He might've killed Jesus due to a power struggle. Maybe Jesus was too soft for him.
What was there to "betray" anyway? The religious leaders had already decided they wanted Jesus dead. There was no shortage of witnesses to his activities. Why did they pay Judas 30 pieces of silver? Just to tell them which park Jesus would be hanging out in that night?
W
Hmm - for some reason, that thought has never entered my mind! -Following this thought, was there really a need for a 'betrayer' at all? Only thing I can think of is it says the pharisees were afraid of the people, so that would be a reason to take him alone at night time, but still. They didn't kill him right away (as they easily could have); they evidently felt they had enough on him to put him on trial. I could understand they wouldn't want to kill him in broad daylight in front of his followers, but he and his disciples were out and about all day long, so it shouldn't have been too hard to track them down without a 'betrayer' in order to put him on trial. And since it was a trial they wanted to send him to, they should feel justified in doing so even in front of his followers. Another thing is that he was paraded in front of 'the people' only a short time later, and then the tune was suddenly changed to "crucify, crucify!". Where were 'the people' that the pharisees had been so afraid of then, all of a sudden?
FreudianSlip wrote: "You assume he really did commit suicide. Maybe he faked his death!"
What about this scenario: Jesus spoke about turning the other cheek, being meek as sheep, loving your fellow human beings, etc. But what did he do? He invaded the temple in Jerusalem and created a riot. He violated nearly every Jewish law on the books. He rode into Jerusalem as a "king." He was like a '60s hippie, intent on shaking up the Establishment at every opportunity.
My take is that Judas became alarmed at Jesus' subversive activities and increasing megalomania. He decided to arrange an "intervention" to prevent Jesus from going completely off the deep end. He identified Jesus for the authorities with the hope that incarceration and a little therapy might help him adjust to society. But it backfired. Judas underestimated the anger of the Jewish leaders and was aghast when Jesus was executed. Hence, the guilt and (alleged) suicide.
We should call A&E's Intervention program. Is there such a thing as a forensic intervention?
If it was destiny, then we are all in the net of fate - and there can be no "judgment" or separating of good people and bad people. We are all actors.
Of the other possibilities - well, it was only a matter of time before *someone* could be convinced to "betray" him. Rather like my predicting that someone that consistenly drives at 90 miles per hour will get a ticket.
thats is one thing i have always wondered about aswell. in the scriptures it says that jesus knew who his betrayer was. therefore, was it not part of some elaborate plan to set up the whole " sacrifice" of jesus death|????
My thoughts after having read the bible cover to cover 5 times and then reading it like a christian or witness for 25 years. No one has any choice. Everything is predestined. Hitler didnt have a choice. Satin didnt have a choice. We dont have a choice.
That is the major theme of the bible. The difficult thing about it is the bible has a lot of themes and it says a lot of different things to different people. But in my studies the major theme is predestination.
The church or belief known as Calvinism also believes the bible teaches predestination.
The best I can describe it. God wrote a play or a story. History. His story.
And we all got parts in it. Some parts are 2 bit parts and some parts are staring roles.
Today I would say Judas got a bigger part than most of us here.
