Actually I am proud of being on a site like this where we have all seen corruption and still all of your responces have been intelligent instead of emotional. BUT...lol.....Do you really believe that 2 buildings could come down just by an airplane. Also, could it really be that someone from the outside could have installed the explosives inside the building....here i go again...let me say this. Have you watched "loose change"?
Do you find yourself kinda thinking conspiricy theorist are maybe correct?
by IreallydidwalkoutofaKH 82 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
Warlock
Has anyone ever, in the past, or in the present, been convicted of conspiracy?
Warlock
-
cognizant dissident
OK, I'll jump in. I'm a public servant; I have been for over twenty years. As others have said, it is improbable that government could successfully pull of such a scheme...successfully. In my experience, the "big boys upstairs" are no better or no worse than any of us. No smarter, either.
Jgnat: your comment speaks to a point I was thinking of earlier. I believe that the vast majority of conspiracy theorists truly have no idea how the government works and all the checks and balances that are in place. If they had any actual experience working for the government as you do, they would quickly see how implausible many of their scenarios are. They can only exist in ignorance.
The comparison to JW conspiracy theories is also apropos. One example: being raised as a JW, and having a close family friend of ours die when I was six due to bleeding to death without blood transfusion, I heard many comments and stories about doctors over the years which contributed to a general attitude of distrust of the medical establishment that was also quite pervasive amoung many JW's we knew. Contributing to, or perhaps stemming from this distrust, my parents, as well as many of their friends, were also into promoting alternative cures through MLM companies as many JW's are. There were also many stories of how doctors didn't really have our best interests at heart, they were in conspiracy with pharmaceutical companies to keep cures for major diseases out of the hands of patients in order to make as much money as possible, and other theories along that vein.
Being exposed to this type of belief from early childhood, I too was heavily influenced not to trust doctors, hospitals, etc. I thought they were "against us" as JW's and generally money grubbing pill pushers who didn't really care about sick people in general. Then I trained as a nurse for a couple of years and once I was right in the midst of "the system" and could see how it worked from the top to the bottom, I realized that everything I previously believed about the medical establishment was simply just not true and based on ignorance and paranoia. Not that there aren't some problems in the system, but the atttitudes that JW's had just didn't mesh with my actual experience and were totally unfounded imo.
There is a vast difference between "knowing" something because you read a theory in a book about it and "knowing" something because you have experienced it first hand.
cog
-
seawolf
The government can't pull anything off? Really? The government has lots of stuff going on behind the scenes that NONE of us know about. Look up the attack on the USS Liberty that nearly sent the boat to the bottom of the Med when it was attacked by Israel. It was a project with a submarine called "Operation Cyanide." To this day people still won't talk exactly what it was. It's known that it was to try and get the US into the war on Egypt's Side with a possible nuclear attack on Egypt. The BBC had an entire special on this, but most people have never heard of it. Look up the case of Mordechai Vanunu. His pictures of the inside of Dimona in 1986 were the first ever of it and the last. Israel went so far as to brick up the lift shafts so the inspecters didn't know there were six levels of control rooms underground. It was a secret kept since then and till now with the exception of what Vanunu revealed. The governments look lame when they do something when it's something they don't care about. The government seeks its own interests first. Remember Katrina? YOU'RE DOING A HELLUVA JOB BROWNIE.
"Do you really believe that 2 buildings could come down just by an airplane."
Hell no. The buildings were designed to take much greater than they took. The chief structural engineer of the World Trade Center said in the New York Times
that the buildings could withstand an impact of a fully loaded Boeing 707 going
600MPH. The Boeing 767s that crashed into the World Trade Center are nearly the same dimensions as the 707. The wingspan is 146' (707) vs 156' (767), length is 153' (707) vs 159' (767), carries 23,000 gallons (707) of fuel vs 23,980 gallons(767). Each of the Boeing 767s that crashed into the WTC only had about 10,000 gallons of fuel so they weren't even half-loaded with fuel. Flight 11 that crashed into the north tower was doing 470MPH and flight 175 that crashed into the south tower was doing 590MPH. This isn't even getting into the people that are seen pretty as a daisy at the impact sites in pictures and video or the firefighters that reached the site saying they should be able to take the fires down with a couple of hoses.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDGInaB0eQM
oh and these buildings were built like a bloody tank. A large fire at the north tower of the World Trade Center in 1975 burned for over
THREE hours on the 11th floor (it spread down to the 9th and up to the 16th floors). It was so hot that the fire broke out windows on the east side of the building (something that did not happen on 9/11). The building was so well constructed that the building DID NOT NEED ONE TRUSS OR BEAM REPLACED. The building remained standing for another 16 years till 9/11 despite there being somewhere around 1,200 feet of building above where the fire was. (scans of the New York Times here: http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Apr_05/100405_WTC_Fire.html)oh don't forget the first 1993 WTC bombing. The 1993 explosion at the bottom of the WTC was caused by a 1500-pound urea-nitrate bomb, packed in a yellow Ford Econoline rental van, and detonated with a timer after the van had been parked in the basement parking garage. The explosion created a crater 200 feet by 100 feet wide and several stories deep. The building remained standing. The FBI let this bombing happen according to secret recordings made by the FBI informant that was supposed to substitute a harmless powder in the bombs (New York Times article here: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtcbomb.html)
<<I think Occam's Razor applies: "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." >>
The official story is a group of Arab men hijacked four airliners (4 out of 4 success rate = 100%). They were part of a group headed by a guy that used to work for the CIA and whose family helps build US military bases. This leader, OSama Bin Laden, has kidney disease and has to be on kidney dialysis. Yet the US can't find him. The US is caught completely off-guard despite warnings for months if not years on this possibility of planes being hijacked and slammed into buildings. Several of the things that helped the government/FBI/etc pin this on Osama's people are things like a pristine passport of one of the hijackers found at the WTC site and, also, a terrorist intent on killing himself on his flight packed a suitcase, and even though he never expected to unpack it and expected it to be incinerated, instead of packing some clothes in that suitcase he took the time to load up that suitcase with all kinds of incriminating evidence pointing the finger of blame to Muslims. Then, miracle of miracles, this suitcase, which should have vaporized with the rest of the airplane, together with its load of incriminating evidence "somehow" was left OFF the plane, ready to be found by investigators! Do I have this summed up in a quick nutshell?
That's the simplest solution? To me, the simplest solution to all of this: It happened to let the US then carry on its goals in the Middle East (as well as at home): -> Afghanistan -> Iraq -> Iran?. It also gave ISrael the leeway to do it's brutal crackdown in the Middle East, too. All of this à la Hitler's Reichstag fire. Also google Operation Northwoods.
I don't really care what anyone believes. I really don't. A lot of people I know locally think the politicians in my town are honest even while their latest scandels are plastered across the front page of the paper! I'm to the point now I just don't care.
It is funny. I was told I was full of crap and a "conspiracy theorist" at the Kingdom Hall because I didn't buy what I was being told. It just made absolutely no sense. I believe something once I see some proof or things add up. Just saying it's true because the JWs/FDA/government/etc says so just doesn't cut it with me.
<<I believe that the vast majority of conspiracy theorists truly have no idea how the government works and all the checks and balances that are in place.>>
If all of these checks and balances worked, we wouldn't be in Iraq. Thousands of US servicemen and women from the US and elswhere dead, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead, millions displaced, a cost that is going to be in the TRILLIONS of $, list goes on and on. Was one thing the government told us true about Iraq? Colin Powell's presentation on the case for attacking Iraq to the UN in 2003 was a disgrace. Maybe there are checks and balances but whether it has to do with the FDA (Vioxx *cough*), military (Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference at the Pentagon on September 10, 2001 stating that $2.3 TRILLION was "missing"), etc, it's all a joke anymore.
If anyone is interested a good topic to Google on all of this is "Sibel Edmonds"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibel_Edmonds
http://www.justacitizen.com/There's an entire documentary about Sibel Edmonds "Kill the Messenger"...preview here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4I4mZx4s04Ron Paul doesn't accept 9/11 investigation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihCP3cfS88EBBC Attack on the USS Liberty Part 1 of 7
-
Seeker4
I don't have it in front of me, but I seem to remember that the chief engineer and/or architect of the WTC buildings was one of the main participants in a recent documentary I saw on the collapse of the buildings, one that completely debunks all this conspiracy crap.
He was, understandably, deeply personally concerned about what happened and wanting to know why. The explanation given was reasonable, scientific, didn't contradict what we all saw with our own eyes and didn't ask us to believe the Bush Administration planned and carried this out without ONE of what would have been at least hundreds of people involved coming forward about it.
And there was not a 100% success rate. Did you forget the folks who sacrificed their lives to bring down one of the jets headed for Washington?
We've had these discussions before. It seems impossible that the conspiracies with little or no evidence continue to be believed, but I think that speaks volumes about the power of this type of view over certain minds.
S4 -
seawolf
And there was not a 100% success rate. Did you forget the folks who sacrificed their lives to bring down one of the jets headed for Washington?
wtf? Really? The plane was hijacked and everyone died? 100% success in hijacking planes.
I don't have it in front of me, but I seem to remember that the chief engineer and/or architect of the WTC buildings was one of the main participants in a recent documentary I saw on the collapse of the buildings, one that completely debunks all this conspiracy crap.
The same group of people that stated the building could take the hit of a large jet and remain standing. Sounds like he's batting 0 for 2 since both buildings went down in under two hours each. What makes you so sure they're right now? It's only crap because you don't believe in it.
He was, understandably, deeply personally concerned about what happened and wanting to know why. The explanation given was reasonable, scientific, didn't contradict what we all saw with our own eyes and didn't ask us to believe the Bush Administration planned and carried this out without ONE of what would have been at least hundreds of people involved coming forward about it.
And how long was it till a governing body member came forward to spill the dirty secrets? How long was it till Mordechai Vanunu came forward? Give it time it till will happen. Others HAVE come forward with things (see Sibel Edmonds links previous) stating the dirty crap that went on with 9/11. Just because you don't know about it or don't care doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
It seems impossible that the conspiracies with little or no evidence continue to be believed, but I think that speaks volumes about the power of this type of view over certain minds.
So does the fact that there's so much evidence out there, plus the 'official' story being full of more holes than a piece of swiss cheese after being unloaded on with a gatling gun and people still believe all of that, too.
"certain minds" LOL
-
FairMind
Seeker4, you seem to be a thinker. With regard to the Internment camps that are reported to exist, do you believe that is all a hoax? If they really exist then can you tell us what their planned use is? I’m looking forward to your insight. Myself, I truly believe they are for those who don't cooperate with the coming NWO (666 maybe?).
-
seawolf
Oh good god. Here's another 9/11 conspiracist.
yeah there are a lot of us since the government's done such a good job of convincing us all
Seriously dude, why are you so passionate about this?
I dunno? Why are you so passionate about coming on here and responding to me and talking to folks like me? If the government is so right and we're so wrong then go on your merry way and forget about us.
I've tried talking to folks like you and things like logic and reason just don't seem to matter. I'm no fan of this administration but conspiracy theories about 9/11 are just so stupid as to defy reason. You know, it just doesn't matter does it? Video, physics, building construction, architects' testimony, et al. let's just blow past that right?
ditto. Just the same way you blew past all what I wrote above! yeah I guess I made all of the above post up. If all of this bothers you so much then don't read it.
LOL this thread really is getting funny. The usual, attack the person not what was said. Typical for JW and ex-JWism! Could my disfellowshipping be far behind?
Why in the hell is this place so angry and rude anymore?
Edit: the funny thing is I never stated WHAT I thought happened. Only inconsistencies and things that don't add up and makes a person wonder. Only thing that could be gathered from what I said is I don't buy the government's story or explanation. From what I see around where I live most of the people don't fully buy what the government has said either. The non-stop lies about Saddam and his "nookular" bombs only made more people wonder. I guess somewhere along the line that became a crime.
-
Tool Man
IreallydidwalkoutofaKH I think you just nailed it, I always wondered why they treat us like children in preschool, now I know why. Thank you for your post
-
What-A-Coincidence
all the info debunkers use come from sources that have been bought and paid for ... PLANE and simple.
Go read "Obedience to Authority" before you say anything.