Help needed.....fast!! JW sister calling tonight to answer questions

by insearchoftruth 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • zeroday
    zeroday

    Did the 1914 Generation Die Anyway?



    Every time since the beginning of the Watchtower movement, they have had some sort of deadline for God's activities.These activities could be the rapture of the saints (which JWs today do not believe in), the destruction of "false religion", ie every other religious group, or the final end of this world. Earlier, these deadlines were explicit dates.

    Later, the Watchtower Society emphasised Jesus' words in Matthew 24:34 "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. " (NWT) This "generation," the Watch Tower Society (WTS) said, is those who experienced the start of these "last days" in 1914. Some of these people would be alive when end came.

    The elastic generation

    If you are a religious leader who want to keep your followers on their toes, you don't propose the end of the world many years into the future. You propose it will come real soon. Thus, the maximum length of "this generation" did not become an issue for the Jehovah's Witnesses before approaching this limit. The length of a generation as Jesus' audience would have understood it in the first century was 30-40 years.

    The question being asked by the disciples was when the temple of Jerusalem would be destroyed. This happened in the year 70 AD, being between 30 and 40 years after Jesus' words. "The length of time is indicated by him when he said, "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Matt. 24:34, NW) The actual meaning of these words is, beyond question, that which takes a "generation" in the ordinary sense, as at Mark 8:12 and Acts 13:36, or for those who are living at the given period." (Watchtower, Jul 1 1951, page 404; bold added)

    This was a bit vague, so some hints were dropped at a more detailed prediction. In Watchtower chronology, the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD happened 37 years after Jesus' death. So, would it not be appropriate for the end of the world to come 37 years after 1914?

    "By keeping the people ignorant they led them into having Jesus killed on a torture stake at Calvary. Thirty-seven years later this willfully cultivated ignorance led to its fatal consequences, the destruction of the city of Jerusalem with an enormous loss of human lives, just as Jesus had predicted, and the breaking up of the Jewish nation till this day. And now in this "time of the end" the revived nation of Israel with capital at the modern city of Jerusalem chooses to go on in the steps of its forefathers . . ." (Watchtower Sep 1 1950 page 277; see also Oct 1 1950 page 407; bold added)

    Having learned from past lessons, the Watchtower kept deniablity. These vague hints were nevertheless picked up by the followers, and many thought 1951 would be "it." The Watchtower spoke in a language the JWs understood: "Counting from the end of the "appointed times of the nations" in 1914, we are 37 years into the "time of the end" of this world. (Luke 21:24, NW; Dan. 12:4) During these crucial years Jehovah's witnesses have sought shelter and strength in him, and they can confess for themselves that he is a "well-proved help in trouble". If it were not for this, they would not be here today nor increasing in numbers. But we are entering the most serious and trialsome years of this "time of the end". The final conflict of Armageddon draws near." (Watchtower Feb 15 1951 page 179; bold added) "WHEREAS the "appointed times of the nations" ended in 1914, it is now 37 years that we have been in the "time of the end" of Satan's world." (Watchtower April 1 1951 page 214; bold added)

    Of course, the end didn't come in 1951, and the theoretical maximum length of the generation, 1954, was drawing near. This was fine, because it increased the pressure and the feeling of emergency. The disadvantage was that the non-coming of the end of the world would bring disappointment. In a "preemptive strike", the Watchtower redefined the generation. "Webster's unabridged dictionary gives, in part, this definition of generation: "The average lifetime of man, or the ordinary period of time at which one rank follows another, or father is succeeded by child; an age. A generation is usually taken to be about 33 years." But the Bible is not so specific. It gives no number of years for a generation. And in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32, the texts mentioning the generation the question refers to, we are not to take generation as meaning the average time for one generation to be succeeded by the next, as Webster's does in its 33-year approximation; but rather more like Webster's first-quoted definition, "the average lifetime of man." Three or even four generations may be living at the same time, their lives overlapping. (Ps. 78:4; 145:4) Before the Noachian flood the life span was hundreds of years. Down through the centuries since, it has varied, and even now is different in different countries. The Bible does speak of a man's days as being threescore and ten or fourscore years; but it assigns no specific number of years to a generation. - Ps. 90:10." (Watchtower, 9/1 1952 pages 542, 543; boldadded)

    So, this would seem to move the absolute deadline for the end of the world to 1984 or 1994. This was definately too far ahead for WTS purposes, as we will see. The same article concludes: "To try to say how many years before its end would be speculative. The texts merely set a limit that is sufficiently definite for all present practical purposes. Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon. All the events will come within the span of a generation. There are hundreds of millions of persons living now that were living in 1914, and many millions of these persons could yet live a score or more years. Just when the lives of the majority of them will be cut short by Armageddon we cannot say." (ibid; bold added)

    1968: those who were 15 years old in 1914

    However, "speculative" proved to be just what the Watchtower Society was. At this time, the whole JW community was firmly focused on the year 1975, which coincided quite well with the maximum length of a generation, provided one did not start counting at zero: "Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the 'last days' began. . . . Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today." Awake! Oct 8 1968 page 13; bold added, italic in original)

    Of course, this figure was not chosen randomly. The 70-80 years idea would fit perfectlywith 1975, when those who had been 15 years old in 1914 would be 76 years old!

    1978 : 'not babies born during World War I'

    Even after the 1975-failure, the speculation over length of the generation continued. The figure fifteen was not repeated, but the WTS used a definition that would keep a sense of urgency. "Thus, when it comes to the application in our time, the "generation" logically would not apply to babies born during World War I. It applies to Christ's followers and others who were able to observe that war and the other things that have occurred in fulfillment of Jesus' composite "sign."" (Watchtower Oct 1 1978 page 31; bold added)

    1980 : those who were 10 years old in 1914

    The 15-year figure soon became too tight for the Watchtower Society, still expecting the end any day now. In 1980, the Society gave God five more years as compared to the earlier prophecy: "As indicated by an article on page 56 of U.S. News & World Report of January 14, 1980, "If you assume that 10 is the age at which an event creates a lasting impression on a person's memory," then there are today more than 13 million Americans who have a "recollection of World War I."" (Watchtower Oct 15 1980 page 31; bold added)

    1984 : babies part of generation after all

    God failed to arrive, and the Society felt the need to reverse what was 'logical' in 1978, and the idea that the generation had to be able to consciously understand what was going on was left behind. Conscious thought is obviously not important in this organization anyway: "If Jesus used "generation" in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80's or 90's, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive." (Watchtower May 15 1984 page 5; bold added)

    1988: babies born in 1914

    The limit was pushed yet a little bit forward when the term "generation of 1914" was being used. Now those born in 1914 was part of the generation. "Likewise today, most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that yearor prior to it." (Watchtower Apr 8 1988 page 14; bold added) Of course, it was now a dead end.

    1988: a generation 75 years?

    Small hints, significant enough to raise expectations but vague as to not cause signficant disappointment when it failed, was dropped all the time. Perhaps 1989 would be it? "J. A. Bengel states in his New Testament Word Studies: "The Hebrews . . . reckon seventy-five years as one generation, and the words, shall not pass away, intimate that the greater part of that generation [of Jesus' day] indeed, but not the whole of it, should have passed away before all should be fulfilled."" (Watchtower Apr 8 1988 page 14; bold added)

    Of course, it was not coincidental that this author was quoted in 1988, being one year before the 75-year limit would end! This book had not been quoted by the Watchtower Society earlier, and would not be quoted later.

    The WTS' confidence in the prophecy about the 1914-generation had not vaned, however. The "generation" was now reduced to the maximum length of 80, leaving 1994 as a maximum length. JWs have been busy denying ever having said anything about 1984 or 1994, but people -- also JWs -- can count. What conclusion can one draw from this article? "It is not reasonable to expect that present favorable conditions for preaching the good news will continue indefinitely. Besides, did not Jesus say that this generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled? A generation, according to Psalm 90:10, is from seventy to eighty years. The generation that witnessed the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 does not have many more years left." (Watchtower 12/1 1968, page 715; bold added)

    When there was still some years to go, the confidence of the WTS was strong: "From a purely human viewpoint, it could appear that these developments could hardly take place before the generation of 1914 disappears from the scene. But fulfillment of all the foretold events affecting the generation of 1914 does not depend on comparatively slow human action. Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: "This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur." (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son's words in a relatively short time." (Watchtower May 15 1984 page 6; bold added - brackets theirs)

    Those who try to defend the Watchtower Society against accusations of being false prophets should think long and hard about the statements above. The usual defence line is that they aren't false prophets since they never claimed being infallible, and never claimed being inspired prophets. All those words are present in the lines above; the WTS even add the text "of 1914" in brackets, thus changing the text of the Bible and putting their own prophetic speculation in the mouth of God and Christ!

    Of course, as 1994 was approaching caution took them. In 1991, the late WTS president Fred Franz was quoted as saying: "But we are as strong for it as we ever were, and we are appreciating it all the more the longer we have to wait for it. It is something worth waiting for, even if it required a million years." (Watchtower Dec 15 1991 page 11; bold added)

    This could not, of course, mean that the WTS had abandoned the idea that the end would come very soon.& Without the urgency, the old Rutherford promise "millions now living will never die" (title of 1920 WTS booklet and preaching campaign) and the more recent promise "you can survive the end of this system of things" (eg WT 6/15 1989 page 7) becomes null and void.

    The year 1994 came and went, and with it, another failed Watchtower prophecy was history. Most witnesses had now 'forgotten' the old prophecies pointing to this year as the ultimate deadline. The WTS, however, has finally decided to go back to its 1952 "no speculation" stand, at least for the time being.

    1995: 'no more speculation'

    In the Watchtower for November 1st, 1995, much space is dedicated to explain away the fact that the generatioon that could not die, have, indeed, died.

    It admits past speculation, but does not admit the Watchtower Society had any part in it. "Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah's people have at times speculated about the time when the "great tribulation" would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However, we bring a heart of wisdom in," not by speculating about how many years or days makeup a generation, but by thinking about how we "count our days" in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah." (Watchtower Nov 1 1995 page 18; bold added;)

    This trick of blaming the rank & file Witnesses is well-tried and trusted. As we have seen demonstrated above, "wisdom" has certainly been lacking in the past. There are no signs of wisdom entering into the hearts of WTS writers now either. The same article even goes on to say:

    "Does our more precise viewpoint on "this generation" mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all! Though we at no time have known the "day and hour," Jehovah God has always known it, and he does not change." (ibid, page 20)

    This statement is so absurd it says a lot about the numb state of the JWs' minds that it can be uttered without an uproar of protest. Everybody even vaguely affiliated with the JWs knows that they have been expecting the end to come shortly every year the movement has existed. 1914, 1925, 1975 and many other dates have been major disappointments, which is even admitted in some Watchtower publications. That the next sentence, 'God does not change,' is used to support the idea that the WTS did not expect the end much earlier, is clear evidence of a major confusion in the Watchtower Society leadership. They think they are Jehovah God.

    How long is the "generation" now, anyway? The Watchtower answers: "Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy today, "this generation" apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ's presence but fail to mend their ways." (ibid, page 19; bold added)

    Most individual Jehovah's Witnesses fail to see that the statement about the end coming "soon" is now empty and void. The above "definition" of a generation can be just as true hundreds of years from now. Even the fulfillment of Fred Franz' statement that it could go a million years will not leave this prophecy violated when the word "generation" is left meaningless as above.

    What is buried in the verbose Watchtower-article is the fact that the doctrine about the 1914-generation is now finally fallen. In the accompanying Awake! magazine of November 8th 1995 the masthead of the magazine was silently changed. Note the difference (bold added):

    Before

    /TD>

    After

    Why AWAKE! Is Published

    Awake! is published for the enlightenment of the entire family. It shows how to cope with today's problems. It reports the news, tells about people in many lands, examines religion and science. But it does more. It probes beneath the surface and points to the real meaning behind current events, yet it always stays politically neutral and does not exhalt one race above another. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.

    Why AWAKE! Is Published

    Awake! is published for the enlightenment of the entire family. It shows how to cope with today's problems. It reports the news, tells about people in many lands, examines religion and science. But it does more. It probes beneath the surface and points to the real meaning behind current events, yet it always stays politically neutral and does not exhalt one race above another. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.

    This silent change probably worked. The average Witness would probably have missed the whole change if it wasn't for the news coverage in sources like LA Times and &

    Newsweek . Anyway, most of them seem to accept the claim there is "no change" or "a very small adjustment," but some are leaving. For many of those sitting on the fence and wondering if this is "the truth," it was the last straw finally ruining what confidence they may have had in the Watchtower Society.

    Already in 1983 the "arch-apostate" Raymond Franz, previous member of the Watchtower Society's supreme Governing Body, all but predicted exactly the change in definition of a generation that has now happened. See his book Crisis of Conscience, pages 221-222. It is interesting to note that so-called apostates are much more successfull in predicting what the Watchtower Society will do, than the Society has ever been in predicting God's activities.

    Considering that critics of the WTS have been waiting for this 'generation' change for many years, one can ask where this "new light" is coming from.

  • zeroday
    zeroday

    You may want to print this out and have your wife read this and show it to the sister that will visit her I can guarantee the JW sister will never visit your wife ever again...

  • insearchoftruth
    insearchoftruth

    I may talk about how I am an engineer and do QA by my trade, then research may not be an issue....I also got the line from my wife that I am a smart person so she has no idea how I have not figure this all out by now.....I hate full jw mode!

    This sister is in a full assault on her!!!

  • insearchoftruth
    insearchoftruth

    My wife's parents have been df'd, mother doesn't care, the father seems to be trying to get back in favor, should I ask about the shunning principal in light of the NT???

  • zeroday
    zeroday
    My wife's parents have been df'd, mother doesn't care, the father seems to be trying to get back in favor, should I ask about the shunning principal in light of the NT???

    Shunning is pretty much cut and dry if your wife becomes a baptized JW she will be required to shun anyone DF'ed on penalty of being DF'ed herself...

  • insearchoftruth
    insearchoftruth

    Is shunning/disfellowshipping biblical, at least when looking at the NT????

    And am I correct in stating that the NT is only written to the anointed and Jesus is the mediator for the anointed, not the great crowd??

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother
    Is shunning/disfellowshipping biblical, at least when looking at the NT????

    they will point to 2 John 10/11 "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching never .........say a greeting to him"

    But read the context. vs 7 - 9, it is talking of those "not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh....& does not remain in the teaching of the Christ" - not those who criticise a publishing company called the W T B T Society!

    BTW From the Truth Book dated 1968

    alt

    You have had the latest version Mark 4 - or is it mark 0ne revisited ?

  • zeroday
    zeroday
    And am I correct in stating that the NT is only written to the anointed and Jesus is the mediator for the anointed, not the great crowd??

    That is correct...

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Checking the above, it may not make plain that the "generation " doctrine changed again this year - The anointed congregation collectively are once again the generation , not being the same people who were in the congregation in 1914, just a collective group. Confused? you should be ...Not many dubs will know that they taught this before in the 20's and abandoned it?

    Those without spiritual understanding today have felt that there has been no "striking observableness" with regard to the sign of Jesus' presence. They reason that everything is continuing on as it did in the past. (2 Pet. 3:4) On the other hand, Christ's faithful anointed brothers, the modern-day John class, have recognized this sign as if it were a flash of lightning and have understood its true meaning. As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day "generation" of contemporaries that will not pass away "until all these things occur."* This suggests that some who are Christ's anointed brothers will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins.

    Feb.15 2008 Watchtower page 23-24

  • insearchoftruth
    insearchoftruth

    Well I may have been a bit too aggressive with my discussion with the sisters husband, am not sure if he is an elder or not, but here are some of the things I asked him...and some answers:

    Is the NT for the anointed only - YES

    Is Jesus a mediator for only the anointed - he said yes and no...Jesus mediates for all...I think the Insight book talks of him being the anointed mediator, doesn't it?

    When were the Jehovah's Witnesses established - gave the answer that the Bible shows since the time of Jesus, but would most likely be noted since late 1800s

    When were they chosen as the truth - he said most likely the early 1940s or so....he did not really know, I asked why they were celebrating Christmas at this time and he said that is a good question but he said that was one of the reasons that the JWs are such a wonderful religion, they are willing to admit they are wrong and change things........

    Not sure how I got to this, but we discussed how the jws do not celebrate holidays and the like because they are not biblical, and they adjust their doctrine to reflect things non biblical...I then asked him why they have honeymoons and use wedding bands, since they have pagan origins and he asked me to provide him info on that so we can discuss.....so I shall

    A while ago another sister was to provide me Trinity book references, never did, so now he said he would, he asked why, I said I like to check the sources....now to get my references together...help??!!

    I told him I was an engineer and I check into things, and he said that is great...so now I feel I can present printed documents...so I may be able to start to bring these home for my wife to see.......

    He wants me to call him and further discuss some things, so I need to get my ducks in a row...any additional thoughts??

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit