So be it.
Why Evolution Should Be Taught
by hamilcarr 360 Replies latest jw friends
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snowbird
It seems that chapter 2 is just a wrap-up of the account in chapter 1.
Really? you must have a different translation. Here's Genesis 2 from "the Message" bible:
5-7 At the time God made Earth and Heaven, before any grasses or shrubs had sprouted from the ground— God hadn't yet sent rain on Earth, nor was there anyone around to work the ground (the whole Earth was watered by underground springs)—God formed Man out of dirt from the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life. The Man came alive—a living soul!
8-9 Then God planted a garden in Eden, in the east. He put the Man he had just made in it. God madeall kindsof trees grow from theground,trees beautiful to look at and good to eat. The Tree-of-Life was in the middle of the garden, also the Tree-of-Knowledge-of-Good-and-Evil.
18-20 God said, "It's not good for the Man to be alone; I'll make him a helper, a companion." So God formed from the dirt of the ground all the animals of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the Man to see what he would name them. Whatever the Man called each living creature, that was its name. The Man named the cattle, named the birds of the air, named the wild animals; but he didn't find a suitable companion.
(bolding added to highlight the chronological sequence)
So, it seems the order in Genesis chapter 2 is:
1) Before any vegetation, man is formed
2) then all kinds of trees
3) then all animals and birds
I don't see anything in chapter 2 indicating that anything was alive before man was created - in fact quite the opposite.
Look again - more closely this time - I've highlighted the pertinent parts in red.
I ask, how is vegetation going to sprout without seeds? What was there for the underground springs to water?
He "made" the different trees to grow from the ground in Eden only?
He formed all kinds of animals at that time, or had He done so previously? What does the Hebrew verb for form or made indicate?
Questions, questions, questions ... but it can be seen that the account in chapter 2 is not meant to be chronological. Rather, it zooms in on Man and the comfortable home that is being prepared for him.
Sylvia
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sir82
Special pleading.
Your argument is "all" doesn't mean "all", and "then" doesn't mean "then".
You're not playing by the rules!
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maximumtool
JG,
But you are still not getting the point...
You do not know what evolution even is. That doesnt mean you are stupid or a redneck or anything negative, it just means you do not know. If evolution actually was what you thought it was, you are right to not believe it. But it is not.
Does that make sense to you? Because if you insist that evolution is something that it is not, just so you can say you do not believe it, then that is being willfully ignorant.
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snowbird
Dear Sir82, this is what you said:
So, it seems the order in Genesis chapter 2 is:
1) Before any vegetation, man is formed
2) then all kinds of trees
3) then all animals and birds
I don't see anything in chapter 2 indicating that anything was alive before man was created - in fact quite the opposite.
I beg to differ.
1) Vegetation is already there, just no one to cultivate it.
2) All kinds of trees for Eden only.
3) All kinds of animals and birds (either created in Eden or before) brought to Adam in order to highlight Adam's need for a mate.
I see everything in chapter 2 as indicating that plants and animals were before Man - just as the chronological sequence shows in chapter 1.
It's nice having this dialogue with you.
Sylvia
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Eyes Open
Or one could admit that the creation doublets are just another example of the many contradictory doublets and triplets that appear throughout the Torah and beyond. Which means they simply cannot be taken literally. Which means they do not provide a literal account of how we got to be the way we are. Which means there is another answer. Which means the human race today should be given the chance to observe, learn, theorise and test to see if more can be learned.
Which means not teaching a theory such as evolution in high school science is simply absurd. -
wobble
Thanks Eyes Open,
You have provided a fitting conclusion to what must be one of the longest threads on here(JWD).
I am reminded of a quote I saw elsewhere on here that said something like"The bible tells us WHY we are here, we leave it to Science to tell us HOW we got here"
Love Peace and many thanks to all,
Wobble
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sir82
Snowbird,
Yes, it's fun sharpening my debating skills! Certainly didn't learn anything like this as a JW.
On to the battle:
1) Vegetation is already there, just no one to cultivate it.
Where is this stated in Genesis 2? If it is not stated, it's just speculation. Adam is created in verse 5, vegetation comes after a "then" in verse 8.
2) All kinds of trees for Eden only.
Well maybe. Or maybe not. Once again seems to be speculation.
Once again - how does it read, without speculating or interjecting "maybe it means this"?
All kinds of animals and birds (either created in Eden or before) brought to Adam
Woops, that's not what it says. There is no "either in or before" written there -- the text reads "God formed all the animals" after he saw Adam was alone.
Once again, where is it written in chapter 2 that there were, or even may have been, animals prior to Adam's creation?
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Eyes Open
Thanks Wobble, but I doubt very much that these thoughts will conclude the thread. :)
Regarding the quote you mention, I disagree with it but can at least respect that way of thinking far more than insisting on taking allegory literally. Anyway, it's good to discuss these things out in the open. Cheers! -
Warlock
Still can't be honest enough to answer the question then? You're squirming.
Squirming?
No, no, no, YOU are the one who is squirming.
I am the person that people like you FEAR, because I won't fall for all of your hocus pocus, no matter how you try to spin it.
Evolution is bullshit, the people that teach it are full of shit, and those that fall for it are WEAK minded sheeple, just like you.
Warlock