Bible study with PO/sister and wife, did not go well......

by insearchoftruth 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  willyloman

  It's your life, I can't tell you what to do. But reading through this and having followed your saga to date, it's clear to me that you are making one fatal mistake: You are meeting them on their own ground. The narrative you provide suggests you have been put into defensive mode and are left with nothing to do but argue each point they bring up, whereupon they have an answer all ready for you. That is what these people are trained to do. Once they go home, you are left to wonder what you could have said.

  You want to fight fire with fire and turn this around. Do not let them ask the questions (i.e., conduct a study). All you need are three good topics and the support arguments and you can rip them a new one. And all of that info is here on the forum. So, it would appear that something is in the way of your being proactive on this. When you figure out what it is, you will be in better shape to fight them off.

  Think about this: They are threatening to take over your family. They are on the verge of capturing your wife, mentally and emotionally, and turning her into a slave. And they'll take you captive too, if you left them - although they don't much care if you come along or not.
• 

  Shawn10538

  I am in agreement with Willylowman. I have PMd you much of my thoughts and Willy here has touched on my same thoughts but put them more simply and straight forward. It is time to get serious and take drastic measures. You are clearly spiraling downward in this. You are losing and way out of control. I don't personally feel you have the resources to beat this on your own, or the experience. It is time to get REAL help on this, not just advice from the internet. I suggest laying down cash for an exit counselor as the #1 best suggestion. If you can't afford it, work out a face to face series of meetings between your wife and some very experienced ex JWs.
  
  Another tool, that I can't believe I didn't mention yet is the amazing book 'Captives of a Concept." Buy it. Use it. DO NOT VEER FROM IT. Take it one step at a time. Don't move on to the next step until your wife has a firm grasp on the meaning and relevance of each argument. The book can be easily understood by even children and that is what makes it so powerful.
  
  Also, drown your wife in affection. Make her feel like it is your honeymoon. Lavish her with gifts, trips, lots of trips and weekends away from the witnesses. Take her to her favorite concerts on Tuesdays and Thursdays, or favorite restaurants especially on meeting nights. Start coming on to her right as she is getting ready for the meetings. Explore her every interest that is non JW. Make her head spin with ecstacy and intense courting. Don't you know that JWs are love bombing her right now? You must up the anty to compete with her affections or she is lost to you.
  
  Good luck and best wishes.
• 

  Slappy

  What shawn says is all good and well, but you have to be careful that if you do start 'courting' back, it shouldn't look like you're doing it just because of the JWs. You know your wife, and you know how she'll react, so if she doesn't particularly care that it's obvious that you are only paying extreme attention to her in order to combat the JWs, then go for it. But if she understands what you're trying to do, then it may push her farther toward the JWs.

  However, as was someone else mentioned, you can't meet them on their grounds; it's the whole 'argue with an idiot' thing. It might be good to pick a topic that you know where the JWs are in direct contradiction with the Bible, or cannot talk their way around, and get your wife interested in that topic. Then when the JWs show up for a study, throw that topic at them and keep it there the entire night.

  Or, you could always use the truth with your wife. Plead with her that you don't want to lose her, that you love her and that you don't want your relationship and her life to be completely ruined and torn to shreds because of the JWs. Tell her that you will not follow her into the lion's den; just because she likes what she hears from the JWs doesn't mean you have to. She should understand that. Let her know that if she continues down that path, what will happen to her as long as you remain a devil. It seems that you honestly care, as any husband should, about her and the relationship you two share. Let her see that, the least it can do is give her a sieve of sorts to strain the JW teachings instead of soaking it up like a sponge. May God be your guide in all this.

  slappy
• 

  StAnn

  Shawn is right: Captives of a Concept is a miracle of a book. I just used it to help someone leave the WTS. It is a different approach. You can't argue doctrine with these people because they won't listen. The premise of Captives of a Concept is to show that there is no possible way the WTS/GB can be the FDS, thus it's irrelevant what they teach because they're not chosen by God. They won't be expecting this.

  Get this book, read it, and stick to it. This is no time to be shy. You've got to fight for your wife now. This book is the most effective tool for forcing people to think about the JWs that I've seen in a long time. Buy it as an ebook so you can get to reading it right away.

  http://www.captivesofaconcept.com/index.php

  Best of luck on your journey,

  StAnn
• 

  Slappy

  If you need a defense to keep the JWs from attacking you (too much that is) and to give your wife reason to bear with your unwillingness to fall in to such nonsense like a little kid, use Acts 17:11 "These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out wheter these things were so [true]." That's always been a favorite portion of mine, because it says quite plainly that we aren't to take things at face-value like JWs think we should. We have to go find those things for ourselves; only then can they be truly real to us. And that is what you're trying to do, is it not. Well, except for the small fact that you know 'bull' when you see it, so you're a step or two ahead. Also, the fact that it says 'searched the Scriptures daily will support you insistance on using only the Bible. For that is all they had back in those days. No Watchtower, no 'literature' of dubious origins, etc.

  slappy
• 

  jgnat

  Here's a good way to study bible verses, the inductive bible study method.

  http://www.godsquad.com/discipleship/inductive.htm

  Would you be able to pick the book? How about John? Witnesses barely quote from the book of John for good reason. It's too nice. It's all about a personal relationship with Jesus, and love.

  As for when to pull the headship card, I'd use that as plan "B" if she goes so far as to say she's going to obey the literature of the society and the Faithful and Discreet slave. In that case, get her to read the sections on headship and "divided households" in the "Secret to Family Happiness" book. It pretty well lays out in there that if you ask (nicely) for her to go along with Christmas and the rest, she is not to oppose you.
• 

  insearchoftruth

  jgnat - great idea....she is finally open to reading the Bible....

  Like that verse slappy, and if I remember correctly, the JWs use the Bereans at times to talk about how 'studious' they are?!?

  I have Captives, very interesting, but the key to me is getting her to understand the significance of the 1918 appointment, she actually does not understand why I have asked her about 1914, so will be work to get her to this point.

  Have been showing my wife the unconditional love I have for her, and this agape love is what makes this so darn difficult, she is a wonderful and beautiful person....but her personality is too easily swayed.....there are some things that she will stand up for beyond reason, and others that just get the best of her......

  Well not sure if this has any significance or not, but she was to have gone to a Mary Kay event last evening with a neighbor, who cancelled on her, so instead she told me she was going to the meeting instead. She had spent a fair amount of the day with another neighbor and her six month old child (who my wife adores) and even after my wife told me she was going to the meeting, she told the neighbor she was going to the Mary Kay event...so far my wife has told NO ONE outside of myself and I would assume the jws in her family she is studying with the jws.
  
  Ends up she did not go to the meeting, ate buffalo wings instead...Well not sure if this has any significance or not, but she was to have gone to a Mary Kay event last evening with a neighbor, who cancelled on her, so instead she told me she was going to the meeting instead. She had spent a fair amount of the day with another neighbor and her six month old child (who my wife adores) and even after my wife told me she was going to the meeting, she told the neighbor she was going to the Mary Kay event...so far my wife has told NO ONE outside of myself and I would assume the jws in her family she is studying with the jws.
  
  Ends up she did not go to the meeting, ate buffalo wings instead...
• 

  yknot

  I am just curious......

  I am not sure your wife's age, but was she the type to 'pay attention' when she was growing up? By this I mean she understood what was going on in the magazines, she knows and understands our doctrines, can discuss them with easy and compare changes over the last 25 years? Or is she more of the type that glanced at the materials the day before and just winged it at the meetings, knowing only the surface of what we believe?
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  insearchoftruth

  Hi ynot, she is 32 and I am sure she just winged it at the meetings...she claims she is an in depth person...but she is not, surface scan then see what happens......
• 

  LovesDubs

  Changing their "light", tacking, current understanding...whatever excuse they use for changing their dogma dujour...its all just them speculating and saying God himself is telling them these things. Well why would an omniscient God change something, change it BACK to a previous understanding, then change it AGAIN? and again and again...like in the case of the Generation, or the fate of Soddom and Gomorrah or what happens to victims of rape who dont scream? They cant say they never said anything about 1975 being the end and then be shown irrefutable evidence that they DID mislead millions of people to their detriment.

  If Jehovah CHOSE them in 1919 and at that time the organization was supposed to be doing all that God wanted his earthly organization to be doing versus the rest of the cults down here...why would he choose an organization that celebrated Christmas and birthdays and supported Hitler which were ALL the case in 1919?? And then God decided later those things were wrong?

  The problem with current JWs is the majority of them have no idea what the actual history is of the organization only what they have been FED through a TUBE from the Borg in the Borgs own literature.

  This study doesnt bode well for you my friend. I fear for you. She is gullible and vulnerable. STick to how they have HURT people. And their hypocrisy.