Why do people use so many derogative, belittling terms on here like....

by reniaa 111 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Mickey mouse

  I use the term "borg" because it fits perfectly. I don't use the other terms because I'm personally not comfortable with labelling, especially words used in the pejorative sense which the WT are masters at (think weak, worldly etc). Just because the WT does it, don't make it right. Then again I recognise that a lot of people here have suffered far worse traumas at the hands of the borg than me and they have justifiable anger. I can cut some slack for that.

  As for the borg not being a mind control cult, all I can say to that is LOL! Try telling your local elders you use this forum Reniaa.
• 

  LovesDubs

  The Watchtowers "teachings" (read: mandates) are as loosely based on the BIBLE as The Pharisees' version was based on the Mosaic Law. They take it, add to it, depend on the ignorance of their followers, the fear of retribution for NOT following it as the Pharisees did, then claim that God Speaks Through Them...as the Pharisees also did. They keep their followers in fear, in silence, in ignorance, separating them from ANY outside influences and sources of information for fear their Pharisaic ways will be exposed. No "worldly" friends, no worldly mates or classmates in activities like sports or dance or band or choir, no education past high school, no reading of literature from other religions, no use of other bibles besides the NWT except for purposes of luring in a new recruit, no questioning of what is written in ANY of their literature. No expressing of concerns, doubts or viability of anything in the "current understanding". no reading of OLD literature so as not to see the OLD understandings, no reading of any books written by JWs as they are not condoned or edited by the Society, no reading of any past history of the Society except for the Society's own EDITED versions of their history. No voicing of any opinions or extra study OUTSIDE what is written in the outlines for talks or in the paragraphs of any article.....no freedom to believe ANYTHING except that which is mandated and sanctioned by the Governing Body.

  NOT a cult? NOT controlling? NOT a condemning, judgemental, mind controlling soul sucking hateful beast?

  And you are afraid we will OFFEND them??? ARE YOU CRAZY??
• 

  tijkmo

  I like to use the word borg because that's what it is.

  hmmm....i think you will find that borg is either a fictional star trek structure......or a swedish tennis player.

  the wt org is neither so i guess that makes your statement incorrect.

  surely reducing the wt org to a mere fictional representation is more dangerous than treating it as the very real threat it is.

  maybe we should all use transporters and light sabers (yes i know) to defeat them

  or a tennis raquet (racket - whatever)
• 

  sweetstuff

  To the poster that compared JWs to hitler i'd like to see you say that face to face with witnesses that have been in hitler conscentration camps for their faith,

  I'd like to see you state that someone who's watched a loved one die over the blood doctrine, or seen a loved one imprisoned over the insane beliefs of the watchtower that they have no right to call them whatever the heck they want to.

  For that matter, I was disfellowshipped during my first pregnancy, (and before you say it, it wasn't for being pregnant and my child was conceived during marriage) and the elders didn't give a flying rat's arse about the stress on my pregnancy or the risk they were putting my unborn child under. So, I'll call them whatever I bloody well want, regardless of what might offend some. They sure as heck don't care who they hurt or offend with their pompous self-righteous drivel.
• 

  Mary

  King Arthur, I um, formatted your post just so it's easier for everyone to read..... Reniaa: If you don't think JWism is mind control consider this: Do You think any of this applies? I hope the formating hold place after I hit the submit button:------ How Thought Reform works by the late Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D. Robert Jay Lifton's Eight Point Model of Thought Reform

  1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. "Come out and be separate!"
  2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter/experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group.
  3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed."
  4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.
  5. SACRED SCIENCE. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.
  6. LOADED LANGUAGE. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a "black and white" mentality. Loaded terms and clichés prejudice thinking.
  7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.
  8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE. Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed. COERCIVE PERSUASION IS NOT PEACEFUL PERSUASION Programs identified with the above-listed seven tactics have in common the elements of attempting to greatly modify a person's self-concept, perceptions of reality, and interpersonal relations. When successful in inducing these changes, coercive thought reform programs also, among other things, create the potential forces necessary for exercising undue influence over a person's independent decision-making ability, and even for turning the individual into a deployable agent for the organization's benefit without the individual's meaningful knowledge or consent.
     
     Coercive persuasion programs are effective because individuals experiencing the deliberately planned severe stresses they generate can only reduce the pressures by accepting the system or adopting the behaviors being promulgated by the purveyors of the coercion program. The relationship between the person and the coercive persuasion tactics are DYNAMIC in that while the force of the pressures, rewards, and punishments brought to bear on the person are considerable, they do not lead to a stable, meaningfully self-chosen reorganization of beliefs or attitudes. Rather, they lead to a sort of coerced compliance and a situationally required elaborate rationalization, for the new conduct. Once again, in order to maintain the new attitudes or "decisions," sustain the rationalization, and continue to unduly influence a person's behavior over time, coercive tactics must be more or less continuously applied. A fiery, "hell and damnation" guilt-ridden sermon from the pulpit or several hours with a high-pressure salesman or other single instances of the so-called peaceful persuasions do not constitute the "necessary chords and orchestration" of a SEQUENCED, continuous, coordinated, and carefully selected program of surreptitious coercion, as found in a comprehensive program of "coercive persuasion."
     
     Truly peaceful religious persuasion practices would never attempt to force, compel and dominate the free wills or minds of its members through coercive behavioral techniques or covert hypnotism. They would have no difficulty coexisting peacefully with U.S. laws meant to protect the public from such practices. Looking like peaceful persuasion is precisely what makes coercive persuasion less likely to attract attention or to mobilize opposition. It is also part of what makes it such a devastating control technology.
     
     Victims of coercive persuasion have: no signs of physical abuse, convincing rationalizations for the radical or abrupt changes in their behavior, a convincing "sincerity, and they have been changed so gradually that they don't oppose it because they usually aren't even aware of it. Deciding if coercive persuasion was used requires case-by-case careful analysis of all the influence techniques used and how they were applied. By focusing on the medium of delivery and process used, not the message, and on the critical differences, not the coincidental similarities, which system was used becomes clear.
     
     The Influence Continuum helps make the difference between peaceful persuasion and coercive persuasion easier to distinguish. VARIABLES Not all tactics used in a coercive persuasion type environment will always be coercive. Some tactics of an innocuous or cloaking nature will be mixed in. Not all individuals exposed to coercive persuasion or thought reform programs are effectively coerced into becoming participants. How individual suggestibility, psychological and physiological strengths, weakness, and differences react with the degree of severity, continuity, and comprehensiveness in which the various tactics and content of a coercive persuasion program are applied, determine the program's effectiveness and/or the degree of severity of damage caused to its victims.
     
     For example, in United States v. Lee 455 U.S. 252, 257-258 (1982), the California Supreme Court found that "when a person is subjected to coercive persuasion without his knowledge or consent... [he may] develop serious and sometimes irreversible physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia, self-mutilation, and suicide." WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA OF A COERCIVE PERSUASION PROGRAM?
     
     a) Determine if the subject individual held enough knowledge and volitional capacity to make the decision to change his or her ideas or beliefs.
     B). Determine whether that individual did, in fact, adopt, affirm, or reject those ideas or beliefs on his own.
     C). Then, if necessary, all that should be examined is the behavioral processes used, not ideological content. One needs to examine only the behavioral processes used in their "conversion." Each alleged coercive persuasion situation should be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. The characteristics of coercive persuasion programs are severe, well-understood, and they are not accidental.
     
     COERCIVE PERSUASION IS NOT VOLUNTARY, PEACEFUL, RELIGIOUS PRACTICE OR CENTRAL TO ANY BONA FIDE RELIGION. Coercive persuasion is not a religious practice, it is a control technology. It is not a belief or ideology, it is a technological process. As a process, it can be examined by experts on its technology completely separate from any idea or belief content, similar to examining the technical process of hypnotic induction distinct from the meaning or value of the post-hypnotic suggestions. Examining processes in this manner can not violate First Amendment religious protections.
     
     Coercive persuasion is antithetical to the First Amendment. It is the unfair manipulation of other's biological and psychological weaknesses and susceptibilities. It is a psychological force technology, not of a free society, but of a criminal or totalitarian society. It is certainly not a spiritual or religious technology. Any organization using coercive persuasion on its members as a central practice that also claims to be a religion is turning the sanctuary of the First Amendment into a fortress for psychological assault. It is a contradiction of terms and should be "disestablished." Coercive persuasion is a subtle, compelling psychological force which attacks an even more fundamental and important freedom than our "freedom of religion." Its reprehensibility and danger is that it attacks our self-determinism and free will, our most fundamental constitutional freedoms.
• 

  Open mind

  Let me see if I've got this straight.

  1. When posters on this site use terms like "Borg", the result is (in the words of reniaa)...

  2. "do not help people viewing to see this site as user friendly to all."

  3. If current JWs stumble on here and see it's not "user friendly", they may be frightened away.

  I agree with those points, but there's no way everybody, including me when I'm feeling particularly cranky, is going to abide by them.

  Here's the only part I don't get:

  The original poster was reniaa!

  Why would you want to give advice that could possibly harm a JW and help JWD?

  om
  
• 

  sooner7nc

  Because of the WT's refusal to allow alternative service to Cont. Objectors during the Vietnam war, my father spent the first 22 months of my life in Seagoville Federal Penitentiary in Texas. He left emotionally scarred, and never has shown me or my sister the love and affection that we now show to our children, and you have the gall to ask people like me why we use terms that you find distasteful in describing this cult? My mother fed me dry milk and ketchup packets to keep me alive while my father rotted in prison. Where was your precious "brotherhood"? I've watched all my extended family suffer from this religion, including having a Grandmother die from Leukemia while the rest of the family argued over the blood issue. Where was the "Love" that I was brought up to beleive in that time? I could go on for hours, but I won't. I will say this though. If anybody doesn't like the names that this "pseudo-religion" is called on this sight, I say TOUGH SHIT.

  sooner7nc of the F*%# the Watchtower class.
• 

  Quandry

  I personally think that is a very fair question.

  For me, it was after I was an ultra faithful obedient to a fault witness for over thirty years and my husband was an elder for twenty, then five elders told my sixteen year-old daughter she was filth in God's eyes and would burn in the fire with the devil and his angels, then told her, "You are disfellowshipped, and if you are still disfellowshipped when Armageddon comes, you can take some comfort in knowing that Jehovah can read hearts."

  This after treating her in a humiliating fashion, berating her, and calling her a liar when she would not admit to fornication even though she said she didn't, and there was no accusation from anyone. (AND-NO, SHE DIDN'T) And was never alone with any boy.

  When my husband was in an elder's meeting with the Circuit Overseer, he said all the worldly people were walking corpses if they did not convert to JWs.

  Just things like that.

  Oh, and also changing doctrine about the generation and 1914 after putting in the Awake magazine for years and years that it was God's spirit that guided them to say that the ones who were alive and at an age of understanding in 1914 would by no means pass away until Armageddon, then those who were alive in 1914, then quietly changing it to soon there will be a peaceful new earth. And we know the two most recent changes. How is it all with "God's spirit" guiding them? They are never "wrong" it is always just "new light."

  Surely you must have noticed this....
• 

  zagor

  Borg

  Witlesses

  Witchtower

  Actually it is reciprocal. WTBS gets back only what it send our way. This is from dictioanry.com

  apostate - a disloyal person who betrays or deserts his cause or religion or political party or friend etc.

  apostate - One who has forsaken the faith, principles, or party, to which he before adhered; esp., one who has forsaken his religion for another; a pervert; a renegade.
• 

  BizzyBee

  Because of the WT's refusal to allow alternative service to Cont. Objectors during the Vietnam war, my father spent the first 22 months of my life in Seagoville Federal Penitentiary in Texas. He left emotionally scarred, and never has shown me or my sister the love and affection that we now show to our children, and you have the gall to ask people like me why we use terms that you find distasteful in describing this cult? My mother fed me dry milk and ketchup packets to keep me alive while my father rotted in prison. Where was your precious "brotherhood"? I've watched all my extended family suffer from this religion, including having a Grandmother die from Leukemia while the rest of the family argued over the blood issue. Where was the "Love" that I was brought up to beleive in that time? I could go on for hours, but I won't. I will say this though. If anybody doesn't like the names that this "pseudo-religion" is called on this sight, I say TOUGH SHIT.

  Powerful words, sooner. My dad and uncles were incarcerated during WWII for the same reasons. The harm and sheer evil done by the WTS ON JUST THIS ONE ISSUE filtered down to negatively affect my life and my family's. The evidence is overwhelming. I would like to see Reniia address some of these issues.