Original Sin

by cameo-d 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  cameo-d

  It seems to be generally assumed that the "original sin" was the act of disobedience. But was it really?

  It was knowledge that was offered. So what's so bad about wanting to raise your intellect? Did our creators intend for us to just be like the dumb beasts?

  I think the problem was the offer to be "as wise as god". Now, first of all, these evil angels offered something they did not even have. So the problem could have been man's desire to be equal or even surpass the knowledge of his own creator.

  Maybe if Adam had said, "no, that's too much for my brain right now to know everything our creators know. Just show me how to capture and maintain fire so we can have light in the dark and stay warm at night." Perhaps it could have been a different story. Why does man have to strive so hard to know things beyond what gives happiness and contentment?

  In this future "Paradise" man is promised that he will be raised to perfection. So what is your ideal of perfection? To be totally good all the time? To always have the right answers and make the right decisions? How boring. This would leave no room for being mischevious. It would be dull, uninteresting, and frankly, we'd have nothing to talk about or discuss if there were no differing views. We need a certain amount of adversity and conflict to learn and to create, and to have balance in life.

  It seems like another apple being offered if we are striving to be "as perfect as god." Why can't we just be content to be "as perfect as humans"?
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  WTWizard

  The original "sin" of wanting to have conscious thinking just goes to show what an Almighty Lowlife Scumbag God actually is. Wanting His creatures to live under stagnation and ultimately a tyranny (Satan must have known something and realized that God was going to tyrannize mankind, and was moved to act decisively)--what kind of "love(??)" is that?
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  AnneB

  It seems to be generally assumed that the "original sin" was the act of disobedience. But was it really?

  It was knowledge that was offered.

  Actually, it was Adam listening to Eve instead of to God:

  Genesis 3: 17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ ...".

  Notice Genesis 2:9 regarding what trees were in the garden "Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad."

  There was no prohibition against eating from "the tree of life", only from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad: Genesis 2: 16 "And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it...".

  It was only after Adam showed disloyalty to his Provider that God turned him out of the garden and away from the tree of life: Genesis 2:22 "And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” 23 With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E´den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E´den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life."

  The original sin was disloyalty...by *man* (not "mankind" which would include women).
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  Pistoff

  Adam and Eve is just another creation and coming of awareness myth; it has been given weight by being included in the Bible, of all things.
  
  Read up on mythologies from ancient societies; many have stories similar to this one, especially involving the tree of life, splitting of the original human in half (Eve from Adam's rib, etc).
  
  A good source is Joseph Campbell's A Hero with a Thousand Faces. It is very dense, but makes a good case for the similarity between all of the creation and hero myths, including messianic ones.
  
  P
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  Robdar

  I find it interesting that only Christians believe in original sin. Jews do not even though Adam and Eve is a Jewish tale. Most Jews believe the story of Adam and Eve is a metaphor.
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  Mandette

  WT--you have a way of putting things that absolutely makes me cringe sometimes... BUT I do get your points..........how do we really view God in light of what He did in the Hebrew scriptures? He seems to be a bloody, vengeful God. But then that changes in a lot of ways in the Greek Scriptures.......I've tried to ask different religious men that question. I get the typical "well you have to have faith" answer. I tell them that it's not a good enough answer.

  Cameo---I can't imagine a perfect world. We all have free will. How could anyone actually be perfect and have free will?

  And in my travels of research such as with the bible books that were excluded from most translations, maybe Adam and Eve are a symbol or a parable?????

  The quest continues..........
  Mandette
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  Brother Apostate

  Actually, it was Adam listening to Eve instead of to God:

  True.

  However, this is NOT the "original" sin.

  Before Adam listened to Eve rather than God, Eve listened to Satan and decided for herself to eat the fruit, WITHOUT discussing this with her husband, Adam, first.

  However, this is NOT the "original" sin, either.

  Before Eve was deceived by Satan, Satan usurped God's headship, disobeying Him in order to be "like" Him, a god.

  However, this is NOT the "original" sin, either.

  Before Satan acted on his desire to be "like" God, He coveted what was not his- God's worship for Himself.

  THAT was the original sin- covetousness.

  BA
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  AnneB

  THAT was the original sin- covetousness.

  Brother Apostate: My take on cameo-d's question was that it referred to the "original sin" of Adam (and possibly Eve, if it was the same "original sin").

  As far as covetousness being the *original* "original sin", while it may have preceeded Adamic sin, how can one be certain that it was the absolute original sin? Perhaps it is only the first sin that we, as humans, have heard about!
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  myelaine

  sin = transgression...all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

  the OT speaks about "transgressing" the law of God. if the original law of God was not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil then the good would be living only IN the "mercy" of God and being thankful for what He provides, (which at the time was everything including a wife for adam). so the evil would be living outside the "mercy" of God and reaching out for more than He provides.

  the NT speaks of the "mercy" of God in sending His Son to us as a gift so that we can once again be "enveloped" IN His "mercy" (by putting on the righteousness of Christ to be born again into the kingdom of God) where, once again, man will be living only IN the "mercy" of God...without satan's contribution (seperation and death).

  love michelle

  p.s. because the tree of knowledge of good and evil, like other trees of the garden,...looked "good" to the eyes and was "good" for food...(and wisdom is "good" too)...satan was playing on eve's vulnerability not her covetousness...imo
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  Satanus

  It could be another take on the age old myth that we are at our core, the same as god, ie spirit. Perhaps it's a story that came from the idea of keeping that thought hidden from the conscious mind and the ego. Once you find that out, you are truly like 'god', united w 'god'. It breaks the artificial controls, sets us free, so to speak. Can't have that, can we, except for jesus? We let him in, but nobody else can have the same nature as god. The rest of yas are all rotten at the core (sinful).
  
  S