Genesis Error: The Rainbow Covenant

by JosephAlward 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  pomegranate

  You don't think God foreknew His disappointment in man BEFORE the flood? What did He do, turn off His omniscience?

  God knew Adam and Eve were going to sin before they did. After all, laws are only meant for one thing. To be broken.

  Laws are meant for bad. Bad comes first, law comes second. If Adam and Eve had not yet sinned, yet God made a law against bad for them, bad was already in existence. That bad certainly CANNOT be equated as God the Creator of all things.

  The following from Paul is all about the LAW given to Adam, and shows God knew EVERYTHING that was going to happen:

  Rom 5:12-21
  12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned- 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world.

  Please note "before the law was given, sin was in the world." Verse 12 starts off talking about Adam on how sin came into the world. Verse 13 is a continuation of the same sentence of verse 12, so the context is absolutely the same, and the context is Adam.

  So. BEFORE "Do Not Eat" was given (THE LAW), sin was in the world. That sin was Satan, already in adversary mode towards God.

  But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

  This continued verse 13 explains why God did not destroy Satan right away. Because there was no bad prior to Satan, so there was no law. Satan's adversarial actions could not be taken into account because there was no law against it.

  The context of Adam's sin against the very first law is maintained:

  14. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam [Do Not Eat], who was a pattern of the one to come.

  Death came as a result of Adam, even for those who did not break the law command of "Do not eat."

  15 But the gift is not like the trespass [Do not eat]. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man [Do not eat], how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

  Again, the law of "Do not eat" being broken by Adam is still the context.

  16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin [Do Not Eat]: The judgment followed one sin [Do Not Eat] and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

  Again, the law of "Do not eat" being broken by Adam is still the context.

  17 For if, by the trespass of the one man [Do Not Eat], death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

  Again, the law of "Do not eat" being broken by Adam is still the context.

  18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass [Do Not Eat] was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man [Do Not Eat] the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

  Again, the law of "Do not eat" being broken by Adam is STILL the context. Now, here is the proof that God knew Adam and Eve were going to fall by the hands of Satan:

  20 The law [DO NOT EAT] was added so that the trespass might increase.

  God gave the law to Adam and Eve so that the trespass would increase.
  Yes, sin increased as Adam and Eve fell, all foreknown by God.

  But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

  Again regarding law and no law:

  Rom 4:15
  15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

  Does it say law MAYBE brings wrath? No, "LAW BRINGS WRATH." Regarding Satan? "Where there is no law there is no transgression."

  And on the flip side, where there IS LAW, there is transgression.

  If God foreknew Adam and Eve to fall, He also foreknew His disappoinment in men at the time of the flood and revealed it in the 6th chapter of Genesis.
• 

  Ranchette

  Hi Joseph,
  I started a thread awhile back called The Rainbow Myth.
  Thought you might find it interesting.
  Here's the link
  * http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11383&site=3

  Ranchette
  
• 

  funkyderek

  Pomegranate,

  Are you saying that God knew humans would sin, and created laws based on this, and then tricked them into breaking them, in order that we could later be redeemed? Seems very messy, and decidedly unfair.

  --
  Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
• 

  RR

  Oh I get it ... so we burn our Bibles and say "there is no God", thst frees us from having a conscious and party like the this is our last day on earth. Hmmmmm ... makes sense!

  ____________________________
  "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."
• 

  pomegranate

  >>Are you saying that God knew humans would sin,<<

  No, the Apostle Paul said it under inspiration from God. I just showed it to you. Do you not agree with the very simple words of Paul?

  >>and created laws based on this,<<

  No you have plainly misunderstood. He created first law based on PRE-EXISTING evil, which was Satan, who was already in the world sinning before the FIRST LAW and before the beginning of the physical creation in Gen 1:1. Please re-read the above. BEFORE THE LAW WAS GIVEN sin was in the world.

  Well if before the law of "do not eat" was given sin was in the world, that rules out Adam and Eve doesn't it because Adam and Eve didn't sin yet. God surely was NOT the sin that was in the world before he gave the command of law, so that eliminates Him too. That only leaves the big Bozo of sins creation, Satan the Devil as the one sinning in the world before the first LAW was given.

  >>and then tricked them into breaking them,<<

  There was no trick on Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve willfully broke the law by reaching out their hands all by themselves. There certainly was a calculated "trick" played on Satan though.

  >>in order that we could later be redeemed?<<

  The whole plan for the physical creation was for redemption OF ALL creation, in heaven and on earth, as ALL creation was barraged and contaminated with Satanic corruption. That was the sole purpose of mankind, to be used as a tool, so the redeemer could come through inherited corruption and be killed at the hands of Satan's system of things, of which he is "god" of and responsible for.

  Only after the "god of this system of things" was fully culpable for the death of Christ could the true God have JUST reason by way of an instituted LAW, for Satan to be put down.

  You see, this is why Christ HAD to be "God" in heaven before he became 100% man on earth. He could be NO LESS than God when he was in heaven in order for Satan's guilt to warrant death. The sacrifice had to be that great, because Satan's sinful claim was that encompassing. Justice is built on BALANCED scales.

  Satan's claim was/is, I AM A GOD. Yet, Satan had NEVER been bound by law, so no penalty. If he was bound by a law with penalty attached, his destruction would have been immediate. Again, with no law, there is no accounting. So, law had to be made, with PENALTY attached. That took time. Mankind was the time, the tool and the trick. ALL LAW from God came through MEN, though the intent from the beginning was to bring ALL LAW into the heavens, where before there was none.

  In order for "a false god" to be justly put down by the true God, the false god had to be guilty of a crime that fit the punishment of death. The law that made such a murder a crime was revealed through Moses. Justice serves equilibrium, and is not partial.

  Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life.

  Scale one: Balanced Justly

  Jesus (Who WAS YHWH Son in heaven)........Satan (I AM A GOD in heaven)

  Satan is guilty of murdering the one on the left, while Jesus was in the form of a man. How shall this scale be balanace? Death to the one on the right.

  Scale two: Balanced Justly

  Jesus (Perfect Second Adam)..........Adam (Perfect First Adam)

  Satan is guilty of CORRUPTLY influencing the man on the right, indirectly causing his death. How shall this scale be balanced? Death to the one on the left.

  >>Seems very messy, and decidedly unfair.<<

  Actually, it is quite brilliant and tidy and perfectly Just.

  I only await for the final EXECUTION of JUDGMENT, because Satan is in fact guilty of murdering a perfect man on earth, who was God in heaven.

  G'Day.

  PS. A Christmas present to all. A couple of pomegranate tunes for you to enjoy.

  * http://www.mp3.com/trippy
• 

  dubla

  pom-

  No you have plainly misunderstood. He created first law based on PRE-EXISTING evil, which was Satan, who was already in the world sinning before the FIRST LAW and before the beginning of the physical creation in Gen 1:1. Please re-read the above. BEFORE THE LAW WAS GIVEN sin was in the world.

  Well if before the law of "do not eat" was given sin was in the world, that rules out Adam and Eve doesn't it because Adam and Eve didn't sin yet. God surely was NOT the sin that was in the world before he gave the command of law, so that eliminates Him too. That only leaves the big Bozo of sins creation, Satan the Devil as the one sinning in the world before the first LAW was given.

  so it is your belief that god created this angel, knowing that this angel would eventually become satan, bringing sin into the world, and planned on giving the first law after this unfolded? (meaning even though he knew satan would sin, there was no law neccesary until he created humans). im just trying to get your idea of omniscience.

  aa
• 

  pomegranate

  Excellent excellent question.

  I believe NEW attributes were created inside God once Satan acted in defiance. Attributes to thwart bad. Ask this question to yourself, do you think it possible for God to create things on the inside of Himself as well as the outside of Himself? I believe the answer is a no brainer.

  First omniscience. I do not believe God possesed omniscience BEFORE Satan rebelled. I believe it was created inside of Him AFTER Satan rebelled. Why? If God were omniscient prior to Satan, then God is the sole source of all evil that there ever was and will be.

  If God foreknew evil (Satan) by way of omniscience, then God brought into existence this evil by giving it life, means God is the evil one as He created it in living form after inventing it by foreknowing it and having it come to be.

  Omniscience goes hand in hand with another quality. Predestination. If God foreknew evil, brought it into existence by giving it life, then those "evil ones" who were given life were predestined to evil from the source of evil (that would be the one who THOUGHT of evil by way of foreknowing all Evil), and that would be God.

  It is a well known fact in the Bible that God is presently omniscient. We who are not even angels know that there is no possible defeating a being that knows all things BEFORE they happen. Do you think Satan was less intelligent then we mere humans when it came to omniscience? No, if HE KNEW IT, he would not have rebelled. Do you really think Satan would have rebelled if God was always omniscient?

  Satan knew NOT the creative abilities of the true God. Satan knew NOT that God would grow by creating attributes inside of Himself to deafeat the evil that GREW OUTSIDE of Him. The evil came from outside of God, NOT INSIDE. If that is true, then there was NEVER any evil inside of God, which means there was a time that God was NOT omniscient, which would have been BEFORE there was evil.

  Evil comes from within and there is no evil within God.

  1 John 1:5-6
  5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
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  DazedAndConfused

  On the question of whether God knew that man would sin or not is interesting. I have no idea where this comes from but I remember always thinking that God did KNOW that man would sin. This idea came from the Society or an Elder in my congregation. It was explained that from the beginning God knew that this would happen and that it would take a "holy war" (to coin a current phrase) to prove who is Master over all the Universe. After the initial confrontation and conclusion was established God would then IMMEDIATELY cut off any other opposers based upon the first "case" (so to speak). I'm not sure I buy into that but, at the time I remember believing ANYTHING told to me by the "higher ups". Sad.
• 

  ISP

  RR got any better ideas?!

  ISP
• 

  RR

  As I see it, God did not create Satan persay. Jesus asked "what man who builds a house does not count the cost first...." Well then, should this not be for God also?

  Scripture tells us that the lamb of God was known before the founding of the earth. Well, this means that God knew about sin. Whether or not he knew that Adam and Eve would sin, I won't venture into. What we do know is that in creating humans and giving such humans free will, God knew that there was the possibility of humans [whether Adam or some other individuals] of abusing such a will.

  So he counted the cost before, looked at all the pros and cons and proceded with his plan. God would have been justified in destroying Adam, Eve and anyone else who broke the rules. But this would not have solved anything, the issue of sin would still be in the air, the issue of living without God, better or worse would still be an issue.

  And thus, God allowed man to govern themselves with out his help. It's a hard lesson to learn, but one obviously man still has not learned yet.

  God however, offered the ransom as a means out.

  ____________________________
  "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."