Genesis Error: The Rainbow Covenant

by JosephAlward 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    >>As I see it, God did not create Satan persay.<<

    Did God "KNOW" evil before it existed? And wouldn't God knowing evil before it existed be darkness inside God? I believe the line is drawn at Satan. Before Satan, God did not KNOW evil nor was He omniscient. After Satan, God "knew" evil and became omniscient.

    With Adam and Eve, before Satan they did not KNOW evil nor care that they were "naked." After Satan they "knew" evil and cared that they were naked. That is what omniscience does, makes EVERYTHING naked and bare. NOTHING IS HIDDEN.

    Heb 4:13
    13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

    >>Jesus asked "what man who builds a house does not count the cost first...." Well then, should this not be for God also?<<

    You believe God has to count costs? Men count costs because they have limited resources. God has unlimited resources. Why should God count costs with unlimited resources? Have you looked to the sky lately? What were the costs for the universe? Do you really think God counted COST??? Unlimited resources never expire, so COST is not a problem with God. What will stop Him from His will and purpose? Nothing.

    Job 12:13-24
    3 "To God belong wisdom and power;
    counsel and understanding are his.
    14 What he tears down cannot be rebuilt;
    the man he imprisons cannot be released.
    15 If he holds back the waters, there is drought;
    if he lets them loose, they devastate the land.
    16 To him belong strength and victory;
    both deceived and deceiver are his.
    17 He leads counselors away stripped
    and makes fools of judges.
    18 He takes off the shackles put on by kings
    and ties a loincloth around their waist.
    19 He leads priests away stripped
    and overthrows men long established.
    20 He silences the lips of trusted advisers
    and takes away the discernment of elders.
    21 He pours contempt on nobles
    and disarms the mighty.
    22 He reveals the deep things of darkness
    and brings deep shadows into the light.
    23 He makes nations great, and destroys them;
    he enlarges nations, and disperses them.
    24 He deprives the leaders of the earth of their reason;
    he sends them wandering through a trackless waste.

    Isn't it true that whatever God says happens? Isn't it a fact that whatever God says, will not return to Him without results? The results HE wants? You think He has to count costs?

    Job 38:2-3
    2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel
    with words without knowledge?
    3 Brace yourself like a man;
    I will question you,
    and you shall answer me.

    >>Scripture tells us that the lamb of God was known before the founding of the earth.<<

    The lamb of God was for one purpose only. Sacrifice. So, if the sacrificial lamb was known BEFORE the earth was created, then that means God knew of the fall of Adam and Eve before it happened. It even says this of the chosen:

    Eph 1:3-5
    4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ,

    Not only was the sacrifice for redemption foreknow and predestined, so were the ones bound to sin, only to be adopted to God. "He predestined us to be ADOPTED," that means "sonship" was somehow not to be for the chosen initially by creation, but through adoption. If the adoption was foreknown and predestined, sin had to be foreknown and predestined because SIN is the reason for the adoption back to God, is it not?

    >>Well, this means that God knew about sin.<<

    The point is WHEN did he "know" about sin. Was it before Satan? If it was before Satan, then God is the evil one as He would be the source of the KNOWledge, correct?

    >>Whether or not he knew that Adam and Eve would sin, I won't venture into.<<

    You have to. The Bible makes you with the phrases I have pointed out. Like, "before the law was given, sin was in the world." That obviously has to mean Satan. Then, the chosen having to be "predestined to be adopted," is indeed proof positive that God foreknew that Adam and Eve were going down.

    >>What we do know is that in creating humans and giving such humans free will, God knew that there was the possibility of humans [whether Adam or some other individuals] of abusing such a will.<<

    Freewill? If God foreknows your every move and thought and desire, how is it you have freewill?

    Job 31:4
    4 Does he not see my ways and count my every step?

    Rev 2:23
    Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds,

    You think you have freewill because you are not omniscient. Another thing, if Paul was PREDESTINED to be adopted, where was his freewill in the matter? Have you ever scrutinized his conversion? Where was his freewill to serve Christ or not? It seemed to me he was BLINDLY forced into submission to God. And loved every minute of it.

    If God is truly omniscient, man has NO freewill. It is only an illusion of evil.

    >>So he counted the cost before, looked at all the pros and cons and proceded with his plan.<<

    You make God out to be a man. There are only PRO's when God does something. Everything God does is GOOD. There is not one CON with or in God. All the CONS are from Satan.

    If chosen to be adopted, I hope to be an EX-CON.

    >>God would have been justified in destroying Adam, Eve and anyone else who broke the rules.<<

    Adam and Eve did break the rule and the penalty was paid exactly as the LAW said. For Satan, there was no immediate law as HE was the first to go bad, so there was no immediate penalty. You mention God being JUSTIFIED. JUSTICE is built on ONE thing. LAW. If there is NO LAW, there is no JUSTICE. Adam and Eve's penalty WAS justified as there was a LAW in place with a KNOWN penalty.

    I believe JUSTICE was another quality that God created within Himself after Satan went defiant. If before Satan there was no BAD, then there was NO JUSTICE, because there would obviously be NO LAW FOR GOOD. Here was heaven BEFORE Satan:

    Gal 5:22-23
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    AND GOOD WAS ALL THERE WAS before Satan went bad but BAD ALWAYS COMES BEFORE A LAW.

    If all was good, there was No BAD, No LAW for bad, No JUSTICE as justice is bound to LAW.

    >>And thus, God allowed man to govern themselves with out his help.<<

    God never allowed that. Man left God to govern themselves. Just like Satan left God to govern himself and the demons left God to govern themselves. Man's way leads to death. It's God's way or no way and that's Yehweh speaking.

    Jer 10:23
    23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps.

    His life isn't his own and his will to direct his step isn't his own. So...Where does this freewill thingy fit in? Seems God has taken it all away with this statement, doesn't it?

  • kes152
    kes152

    Dearest Joesph,

    you are in error. NO WHERE in that scripture does it say that "bow" was the 'first bow' seen in the earth. Apparently, you ASSUMED it was the first bow. Hence, the error in in you, not my Father, and not in what he did.

    And just so you know.. there was no 'water-canopy' green house effect. Re-read the Genesis account in Genesis 1. It tells you the water above the 'firmament' was beyond the physical universe.

    Gen. 1:12-16

    Peace to you,
    Aaron

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    as it says in who's who, I really shouldn't get involved in these conversations!!!
    It just reminds me of how complicated and slightly twisted everything becomes when trying to explain the Bible with the modern concepts.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    For instance?

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