by outofthebox 47 Replies latest jw friends
Is it right to destroy a person's faith without offering an alternative like Jw's and jesus did.
Good question.
Here's a good question for you:
If I see that you are in a theater watching a movie, and I notice the theater is on fire, and I yell for you to get out, do I have the obligation to tell you where else that movie is playing?
Reniaa .... Theocratic school assignment... "use of effective and convincing argument - use of reason "...when
speaking you are to consider background and position of your audience so as not cause needless
offense ! How can you not see that if you in effect place at thorn under a horses saddle you cannot expect
a smooth ride home ? Your words flow out of you like a waterfall but you fail to use passion or understanding.
The talk of praying for people seems not to ring true to me... if compassion is not found in addressing us
then why should we expect it in any would-be prayer ? All I hear is judgement and condemnation !
Caliber
I am glad you've voted ootb, i feel everyone should.
But i have to say i still don't get why you're an elder. I said it when you was made up and i still feel the same now. You are living a lie, i do not agree with reniaa's beliefs but i am kind of with her on this, but for different reasons.
Paul
Sir82
Good question.
Here's a good question for you:
If I see that you are in a theater watching a movie, and I notice the theater is on fire, and I yell for you to get out, do I have the obligation to tell you where else that movie is playing?
Mickey mouse Re: I am an active elder and I voted today! Personally I'm not sure yet where I stand when it comes to belief in God or the Bible. I haven't had sufficient opportunity to study everything I want to yet. I still think it's better knowing I was wrong and searching for the truth than deluding myself I had it right in the first place. It seems to me the most important thing to you is security, so you'd sooner cling to a fallacy than acknowledge it as such and face uncertainty.
Hmmm the save anyone from a burning cinema this a vague simile, I think the question would be more correct by offering....is someone better being saved from a burning cinema only to be put the burning shop next door? If you could guarantee their life would be trouble free outside of the Jw's from druggies, school shootings, wars, unforseen and terrible circumstances then your cooking with oil, the JW's and any other faith for that matter offer HOPE real hope beyond all that we can hope for in an existance without God.
Have you ever watched 'highlander' the movie 'there can be only one!' it's that way with all religions and the bible, don't fool yourself, all religions agree on this, JW's are not unusual in this respect , you may get the occasional ultra modern one that says all roads lead to God but even they will say something like erm that excludes extremist muslims (who in there own way are extremely commited to their god), the majority of christian faiths may in many cases club together but in their own minds they believe it is a 'Jesus only' club and those that don't believe in jesus 'here's a ticket to hell' lol hense why isaac amongst others like born agains on here thinks i'm condemned by virtue of not believing in Jesus as God.
You can't have it both ways you can't say JWs are bad because they believe only the JW's have the 'truth' and then go on to say but we are saving people from the faith because they have it wrong erm you are contradicting yourself Jw's can only be wrong if you think there is a right answer concerning belief in God! but then you are not offering that right answer just saying well your on your own now 33,000 faiths to chose from and thats only the christian ones, and the 70 year old sister with no family whose lived 50 years in the Jws looks at you helplessly with no idea were her next hope will come from! and you say 'I've saved you be free but don't expect an alternative from me I've done my bit, i'm sure you'll find a nicer faith of course you may have to do the work yourself not many faiths actually evangelise outside of their little groups."
Research in bible is always good but a difficult process mickey mouse I wish you well with that. My research led me back to Jw's but I appreciate that is not the same for everyone and I do respect other faiths but inevitably if there is a god then we all stand before him individually and have our hearts judged, the only God I could stand before with any sincerity is Jehovah I've tried the others but I couldn't find the faith for them! So I'm throwing my lot with Jw's for good or ill :S
reniaa
Congratulations on voting for the first time! Renaia, it's 1900 on a Tuesday, don't you belong somewhere?
To Reniaa and all,
I come here on a regular basis and read as much as my mind will allow before it implodes altogether. I find many posts enlightening, many way out there and others quite sad. I do not believe in arguing about any beliefs as I feel that there IS a God, a Son of God and also a Holy Spirit. I do believe that they are all individual creatures. But many believe differently...that's okay by me.
I was a Jehovah's Witness for over thirty years and being one led me to realize that there is not one True organized religion on this Earth. I learned that there is no way to know God's name according to the Bible, because it was so sacred that it was not allowed to be written down. Who knows what YHWH stands for...only God knows. So, therefore, whether you believe in God or not his name is unknowable that is why he said it was SACRED! If we were supposed to know his name Jesus would have revealed it in his sermon on the mount. But no. He said to pray this way: "Our Father who art in Heaven." Not Jehovah who art in Heaven. When he died on the cross, he had the perfect opportunity to use his Father's name and yet...he said,"My God, my God why have you forsaken me."
I know that for me, the only Truth is Jesus Christ. He said he was "The Way, the Truth and the Life." And I believe him. He came to reveal that He was here to lead us to his Father. These are spiritual creatures and who knows where Heaven is or where they reside...who knows it may be another dimension. Does it really matter? I do not rely on others to give their spin to the Bible. The WTS says that intellectuals cannot comprehend the truths of the Bible. Yet here we are having intellectual discussions about that very book. The WTS are the people that distort and confuse the message of the Bible and make it totally incomprehensible. I have a personal relationship with the Being that made our incredible Universe. I feel such a close relationship with Him sometimes it feels as if I am not worshiping Him at all but just communing with him, but then maybe that is what worshiping is. But I do acknowledge that all this mind boggling, majestic, awesome universe did not just come into being on its own. So I talk to this Being as much as I can. In today's language I would have to say that we are BFF. I acknowledge that there is something far, far greater than I and that I should give thanks for everything that Being has created, not only for me but for all humankind.
I cannot truly say that I wish I had never been a part of this religion, because I feel that I have found the right path for me and a way to purely live, love and enjoy the life that I have been given all because of being truly miserable as a Jehovah's Witness. Actually the twisted teachings and misinterpreted Bible scriptures spurred me on to really research this religion and find how corrupt and untrue this supposed Truth was. And because I felt this way it enabled me to find REAL love and feel connected to all living things. Believe what you will. Follow your Bliss as the Hindus say. Love and accept all others. Cherish and be grateful for this beautiful planet that we live on. Be kind and caring. Have a moral compass. If you feel you must vote for candidates, propositions etc., then do what your heart motivates you to do. We must make the choices that are right for us. We cannot let others do it for us, because we must answer for our own actions.
When I was a Witness all I did was read the Bible and all the WTS literature. Now I only read what I WANT to read and I feel so much closer to my Creator than I did during all those many regimented years as a rule follower and GB worshiper. As I have said for many years, I do not worship an organization I worship God. Whatever His name is.
When our life has run its course, we will find out all the answers. Maybe there will be nothing just as before we were born. But as for me I am looking forward to the greatest adventure of all time.
I wish you all peace, joy and true happiness.
Me too, it was great, I didn't vote for the commie either.
Why? Was it the position of being an elder that made you more intelligent than the congregation?
I've been around since the late forties. In those days, we didn't have the info about the org. as we have today. Had you been living in those days (much different than today} they PREACHED that the end was near, it was commonly accepted. The date 1975 date NEVER caught my inner feelings and thoughts about the end. I base my understanding in what the scripture saying,
"...no man man knows the day and hour". I believe in what the scriptures say that there is going to be a resurrection of BOTH the righteous and UNRIGHTEOUS. God or Jehovah ( say what you say about him may being cruel, but to what end and to whom? What makes US so much righteous than others? What solution do YOU have for a better life, EVEN NOW?
ootb, congratulations. Man hen I was an elder I was so scared to do this. I am proud to say that today I voted for the first time...and for the winning guy.
Isaac Carmignani
Well, I guess OOTB has shown that the JWs can not be God's clean org...as the WT claims these men are appointed to position by the Holy Spirit. Perhaps though, the Holy Spirit has moved OOTB to this position to be able to help others out of the org.
Reniaa, did you pm Mary yet for her book?
You surprise me Isaac I did think you wouldn't fall into the class of 'end justifies the means' and would actually appreciate that some people considering their age and situations are best left with the comfort and hope of their faith especially if you cannot offer them an alternative. you are right I am more pro-witness these days and am currently sorting my life so as to get to at least one meeting a fortnight,
The argument that holy spirit would not allow a bad person in is ridiculous unless you can guarantee perfection in the leaders of any faith, The example of bad seeds getting in goes way back to Jesus and Judas, even peter denied Jesus 3 times so holy spirit didn't protect him there, you say you follow bible isaac so i'm surprised you made that point!
As for Mary's book considering I have read a number of mary's view on my points she is particularily hate-filled on the JW front, I don't think her book would give a fair or unbiased look whatever the subject if it concerns JW's, so nope it holds no interest for me and I feel the same about awakenned at gileads book too. I saw a thread were he was canvassing for negative experiences there was no attempt to ask for alternate ones.
