I am an active elder and I voted today!

by outofthebox 47 Replies latest jw friends

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    You surprise me Isaac I did think you wouldn't fall into the class of 'end justifies the means' and would actually appreciate that some people considering their age and situations are best left with the comfort and hope of their faith especially if you cannot offer them an alternative. you are right I am more pro-witness these days and am currently sorting my life so as to get to at least one meeting a fortnight,

    Give me a scenario that you mean someone may be better left alone. Name a scenario. A 85 year-old widow with no family, perhaps. In some cases yes, it is best left alone.

    The argument that holy spirit would not allow a bad person in is ridiculous unless you can guarantee perfection in the leaders of any faith, The example of bad seeds getting in goes way back to Jesus and Judas, even peter denied Jesus 3 times so holy spirit didn't protect him there, you say you follow bible isaac so i'm surprised you made that point!

    LOL That was made a bit satirically about the org. Yes wheat and weeds grow together. OOTB would be wheat trying to help others.

    As for Mary's book considering I have read a number of mary's view on my points she is particularily hate-filled on the JW front,

    Hate-filled? At injustice yes. As far as her attitude toward others Mary seems quite loving and helpful.

    I don't think her book would give a fair or unbiased look whatever the subject if it concerns JW's, so nope it holds no interest for me and I feel the same about awakenned at gileads book too. I saw a thread were he was canvassing for negative experiences there was no attempt to ask for alternate ones.

    Mary's book used solely WT lit. I agree that WT lit is very negative...but that fault would lay with its authors. As far as your comment toward Lance, we would then ahve to apply that same principle toward the WT. Why do they not solicit any opinions or experiences other than that which is beneficial toward their own interests? They are like a car dealer who tells his customers that he is honest and very upfront but they are not to contact any of his former customers to check him out. They are like an accountant who handles someones chekcing account and tell the client that anytime they want to know about their account activity they are to come to him and he will print out his excel sheets showing all activity but they are not to go to the bank and get actual bank statements.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    Reniaa does raise an important question.

    Is it fair to deliberately destroy the faith of a Jehovah's Witness without providing them with an alternative belief system.

    One of my relatives is in her 60s - she holds on to the faith as that's all she's got. If I take that away, what does she have left? What will happen to her? She suspects that I'm not 100% in agreement with the truth but I'm not going to tell her what I know.

    The situation can be looked at differently when you are married to a JW and you stop believing. If you stop attending meetings, your other half will want to know why. What do you say? If you say nothing out of respect for their beliefs, however wrong they may be, you end up with an unhappy marriage and a spouse who can't understand why you've slowed down. In my case, I had to explain to my other half why I no longer believe.

    My other half and I still identify with Christianity; therefore as a result of leaving JWs, our faith, although shattered, is not completely broken and we are free to look for Christ ourselves without being told by the Watchtower how to go about it.

    If a true believer genuinely asks me why I left and really wants to know I will use discretion.

    Another point is that Jehovah's Witnesses spend hours trying to replace other people's beliefs with their own lies and interpretations so a little anti-witnessing here and there is warranted depending on the circumstances.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    right truthseeker...if a JW does it it is preaching, carrying out their commission. When they are the receivers it is apostasy. If that is not a double standard I don't know what is.

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead
    As for Mary's book considering I have read a number of mary's view on my points she is particularily hate-filled on the JW front, I don't think her book would give a fair or unbiased look whatever the subject if it concerns JW's, so nope it holds no interest for me and I feel the same about awakenned at gileads book too. I saw a thread were he was canvassing for negative experiences there was no attempt to ask for alternate ones.

    May I explain why?

    Note the following quote from the WT:

    *** w88 4/15 pp. 29-31 Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit ***

    Discipline—Many Benefit

    21 Some outsiders, upon hearing about disfellowshipping, are inclined to sympathize with a wrongdoer who can no longer converse with members of the Christian congregation. But is not such sympathy misplaced? Consider the potential benefit that the wrongdoer and others may receive.

    22 For example, on page 26 we noted Lynette’s comment about her choice ‘to cut herself off completely from all association’ with her disfellowshipped sister Margaret. She and her Christian relatives ‘believed that Jehovah’s way is best.’ And it is!

    23 Lynette’s sister later told her: ‘If you had viewed the disfellowshipping lightly, I know that I would not have taken steps toward reinstatement as soon as I did. Being totally cut off from loved ones and from close contact with the congregation created a strong desire to repent. I realized just how wrong my course was and how serious it was to turn my back on Jehovah.’

    24 In another case, Laurie’s parents were disfellowshipped. Yet she says: ‘My association with them never stopped but increased. As time went on, I became more and more inactive. I got to the point of not even attending meetings.’ Then she read material in The Watchtower of September 1 and 15, 1981, that stressed the counsel of 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 and 2 John 9-11. “It was as if a light bulb were turned on in me,” she writes. ‘I knew I would have to make some changes. I now better understand the meaning of Matthew 10:34-36. My decision was not an easy one for my family to swallow, for my son, five, is the only boy, and they love him dearly.’ It is hoped that losing such association will touch the parents’ hearts, as it did Margaret’s. Still, the discipline involved helped Laurie: ‘I am back out in the field ministry. My marriage and family are stronger because of my change, and so am I.’

    25 Or consider the feelings of one who was disfellowshipped and later reinstated. Sandi wrote: ‘I would like to thank you for the very helpful and instructive articles [mentioned above] on reproof and disfellowshipping. I am happy that Jehovah loves his people enough to see that his organization is kept clean. What may seem harsh to outsiders is both necessary and really a loving thing to do. I am grateful that our heavenly Father is a loving and forgiving God.’

    26 So our God who requires that an unrepentant wrongdoer be expelled from the congregation also lovingly shows that a sinner can be reinstated in the congregation if he repents and turns around. (A disassociated person can similarly request to become part of the congregation again.) Thereafter he can be comforted by Christians who will confirm their love for him. (2 Corinthians 2:5-11; 7:8-13) Truly, it is just as Paul wrote: “No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness.”—Hebrews 12:11.

    I am merely showing the side that the WT does not. Have you written to the WTS to complain that they show no sympathy for those DFd? Once you do so, please let me know and I will canvass for positive experiences (although I don't need to, they are already published!)

    A@G

  • Reverend Warhawk
    Reverend Warhawk

    Another first-time voter here...Me and my wife! Yay!

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Reniaa,

    LOL You were sparked to defned the WT by my actions? What a good lil drone you are....the GB must be so proud of you as one of its subjects. My hope was that it would help you to critically analyze. Obviously not.

    Regarding OOTB- It does not appear he has lied...simply using his position to help others. Yes I condone that.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Show me where OOTB lied? Did he say he lied?

    You know the WT endorses lying if it is toward the benefit of the org- they call it theocratic warfare strategy- they lie in court in child custody cases notably.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Did you at least read Mary's book?

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