any problems with this 607 response from Elder PO

by besty 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    The date 607 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians is arrived at from within Scripture itself. That the exiled Jews would spend 70 years in Babylon was prophesied in many places – 2 Chronicles 36:21;

    2nd Chronicles 36:21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

    Where does it say Jerusalem spent 70 years in babylon? It simply states that a 70 year period ended and that Israel paid her sabbaths during her laying desolate.

    Jeremiah 25:11;

    And this whole land shall be a desolation, [and] an astonishment; and (((these nations))) shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.


    Jer 25:18[To wit], Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as [it is] this day;

    Jer 25:19Pharaoh king of Egypt, and his servants, and his princes, and all his people;

    Jer 25:20And all the mingled people, and all the kings of the land of Uz, and all the kings of the land of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Azzah, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod,

    Jer 25:21Edom, and Moab, and the children of Ammon,

    Jer 25:22And all the kings of Tyrus, and all the kings of Zidon, and the kings of the isles which [are] beyond the sea,

    Jer 25:23Dedan, and Tema, and Buz, and all [that are] in the utmost corners,

    Jer 25:24And all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mingled people that dwell in the desert,

    Jer 25:25And all the kings of Zimri, and all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of the Medes,

    Jer 25:26And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which [are] upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.

    Jeremiah 29:10;


    Jer 29:10For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.

    Where does it say 70 years applies to Jerusalem only? Ch 25 makes it palin it refers to the whole world. 70 years of Babylonian dominance over the world.

    Daniel 9:2. In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

    word by the mouth of Jeremiah- included the desolations of Jerusalem and the rest of the world's servitude

    539 BCE is a pivotal date – both Scriptural chronology and secular history point to 539 BCE as the date for the fall of Babylon.

    secular history yes...the Bible contains no absolute date. However the 70 years from the Battle of Carchemesh to the destruction of babylon goes from 609 to 539

    Scripture then shows that the Jews returned to Judea in 537 BCE.

    prove it

    We give primacy to the scriptures that the exile was 70 years, thus the destruction of Jerusalem must have been in 607 BCE.

    baseless assertion. Scripture shows nothing of that sort. Only 70 years of babylonian rule over the world.

    So, when deciding when we think Jerusalem was destroyed, we can either accept the Scriptural chronology (with 1914 following from this evidenced by dramatic and irrevocable change in the world situation i.e. “the last days”)

    baseless assertion again

    or go with uncertain secular sources of evidence which are often subject to change, revision and new archaeological discoveries.

    in this case countless verifications archaeologically, astronomically, as well as Biblically show 607 to 1914 to be nonsense

    The Scriptures will never change that the exile would be 70 years

    The scriptures do not show 70 years of exile.

    and everyone agrees with 539 BCE for the fall of Babylon, and 537 BCE as the date of the return from exile.

    show one verse proving 537.

  • FadingAway
    FadingAway
    go with uncertain secular sources of evidence which are often subject to change, revision and new archaeological discoveries

    So does he not see that the firm belief of 607 rests upon the "weak" foundation of secular dating?

  • VM44
    VM44

    Sounds like he is a tape recorder....playing back everything that The Watchtower wants him to play back.

  • besty
    besty

    My brother has a Mensa tested IQ of 151 and Masters Degree from University with 1st Class Honours - achieved recently whilst an elder :-) but thas another story

    But indeed - a WTS tape-recorder fits well - I wish he would apply the same intellectual standards to 607 as he has done in his other studies, but cult members just do not think like that....

    thanks for contributions so far - keep 'em coming....

  • civicsi00
    civicsi00

    "Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. For you yourselves know quite well that Jehovah's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night."

    -1 Thess. 5:1, 2 (1969 Kingdom Interlinear)

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Cabasilas - Thanks for the Rogerson download! I'd heard of it but never seen it.

    Edit: I'm mixing him up with Alan Rogerson who wrote "Millions Now Living ..." in 1969. Still, the Geoff Rogerson paper is worth having.

  • sir82
    sir82

    "Scholar" will be along in T - minus 3 hours....2:59:59...2:59:58....

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    "Scholar" will be along in T - minus 3 hours....2:59:59...2:59:58.... Does this self-proclaimed scholar even beleive the bs he says?

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly
    My brother has a Mensa tested IQ of 151 and Masters Degree from University with 1st Class Honours

    Yep, it makes no difference. I have a relative - highly educated, intelligent ... and totally in the WTS/JW box - is a well-known and highly respected elder - gives DC talks, hobnobs with the Bethel elite, etc. Like your brother, he doesn't seem to apply his critical thinking skills to doctrine. I think he'd have a serious meltdown if he did.

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    The real kick in the junk here to me is that the same damn scholars arrived at 537! So they are good for ONE date but not the other?

    These f%ckers are such a joke and don't even know it!

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