Notice this Contradiction on How Jehovah's Witnesses View Marriage

by flipper 48 Replies latest jw friends

FuzzyPaul

Homerovah,
Perfect conclusion. The contradictions abound in the WT fantasy world. For instance, at the KHall we were always taught that ONLY JWs will survive Armageddon but when at the door in field service one is instructed to say that God reads the heart and decides. Completely dishonest - lies by any other name smell just as offensively.
Raymond Franz's book In Search of Christian Freedom details dozens (seems like hundreds) of cases of gross editorial dishonesty. I remember reading how the FDS (ha!) - even deliberately misquote - rearranging the words to alter the content of the statements to their own ends. Penton in his book Apocalyse Delayed tells story after story of WT lies and intrigue - right out of their own literature.
I go to a Southern Baptist Church and find the people to be absolutely fantastic. No intrusiveness or spying. If I contradict something at Sunday School no one hauls me off with their hands on my neck (saw that once) to disfellowship me. I am respected and loved.
It turns out, most of tradional Christianity's doctrines are closer to the Bible's teachings than not. Jesus is OUR God, Savior, Lord and Father. He has a God, Father, Lord and Savior as well but is still OUR God. Isaiah 9 you know. When the changes in the NWT are analyzed (I used The Kingdom Interlinear in The KHall for years and kept finding changes that seriously altered or obscured the meaning) the Translation Committee altered every passage that could be read against eternal judgement, a spirit component to Mankind (Soul is our etherial component) to quote Plato in The Republic
Socrates - ADEIMANTUS

Adeimantus thought that the enquiry would be of great service to us.

Then, I said, my dear friend, the task must not be given up, even
if somewhat long.

Certainly not.
Come then, and let us pass a leisure hour in story-telling, and our
story shall be the education of our heroes.

By all means.
And what shall be their education? Can we find a better than the traditional
sort? --and this has two divisions, gymnastic for the body, and music
for the soul.
The Greek SeptuagintI uses THAT word for soul at a time when it meant to every Greek speaker in the Greek Empire what Plato wrote. A word is defined by its comtemporaneous usage, not by revisionist historians.
Umm, notice how the Resurection of the rest of the Dead happens after Satan is imprisoned forever, after the final attack on God's people at the end of the 1,000 years or when it has ended. WHY resurrect someone, tell them "You are not found written in the Book of Life - now go back to sleep forever." A perverse rearragement of What is actually written with explanations that have no proof in Holy Writ is the table fare of the Watchtower.
Tradional Christianity identifies the fact that of the Holy Spirit being a person, (The angel of God's presence)
Isaiah 63: 9, 10 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
In all their suffering, He suffered,
and the Angel of His Presence saved them.
He redeemed them
because of His love and compassion;
He lifted them up and carried them
all the days of the past.
10 But they rebelled,
and grieved His Holy Spirit.
So He became their enemy
[and] fought against them.
I know that I could go on and on, I am recognized for being a deep student and I get called a "scholar" by some. I take finding joy in research seriously. We all recognize the deep level of nonsense and dark thinking coming from the HQ at Bethel, joining the United Nations and such. WHY trust them for anything? Question everything - I found most of what they taught me is twisted or rearranged or misrepresented.
Read The Book of Enoch at http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/ and remember how Jude quotes Enoch Book 1 vs.9 as being prophetic. Prophecy is the only absolute proof of Divine Inspiration. The book of Enoch was found in The Dead Sea scrolls and is known to have been widely read in the First Century. Also, you night find reading The Recognitions of Clement at ccel.org of great interest since Clement writes that he studied with Barnabas and Peter.
Regards,
Paul
no more kool aid

Saying that a JW spouse can leave for spiritual endangerment can be used as a loophole. I saw this happen several times. One time a sister divorced her husband because he wanted a Christmas tree. The problem is, the JW is usually a zealot and cannot tolerate any compromise and can say whatever they want about the unbeliever. I think a legal separation is now recommended because she can collect some sort of "benefits". They are all about taking advantage of govt. programs so as to not be a "burden to the congregation". Physical endangerment was a also a reason to separate. Problem is the organization is a breeding ground for abuse. Wife: submissive and uneducated. Husband: god appointed family head, who has plenty of his own frustrations being raised in this organization. Where is she supposed to go if she does leave, not supposed to get any kind of real education and don't you dare miss a meeting or all sympathy from congregation will evaporate. What a trap!
WTWizard

That is one sure way to get people--tell them one thing to get them in, make them sign away their lives on a binding contract, and then tell them the truth about the organization. And by then, they are bound to obey the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger, having gotten no information about the actual rules until they are in.
I wonder when they are going to take the next step, make people sign actual contracts to obey the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger no matter what that could be used to sue the witless if they do not obey fully, and then start giving them orders that either are impossible to obey or that contradict each other.
flipper

Great comments by you all ! Thanks for your input. Been working all night so I couldn't respond. Will now.
SARAH SMILES- Yeah - It's funny, I think many JW's who are unhappily married have used this " absolute endangerment of spirituality ' as an " out " or excuse to get out of a bad marriage anyway.
HOMEROVAH- Perfectly put by you ! I couldn't have stated it any better ! The example you gave of the husband trying to show love for his wife and pull her out of the " witness trap " is a perfect description of what happened to my friend. He was a great husband to his wife , they were happy and were close. But you are right - When his wife ran to the elders with the situation of him being on the internet discovering contradictory information about the witnesses - it ended up being the " death sentence " on their marriage , as the elders gave her the green light to leave due to her husband's alleged " absolute endangerment to her spirituality " ! Bastard elders. How intrusive ! Really sad. And your point is well taken that the elders see a husband doing this as an " annoying threat to their power and control " ! Precisely ! Truly sick and twisted men in power who break up marriages !
HALYCON- Well put by you. A friendly apostate is looked down on more than abusive SOB husbands. Sure is a paradoxical view by the WT society, isn't it ?
FUZZY PAUL- Very true. Contradictions are very common in the WT societies publications and in how the people act ! They say one thing at the door in their ministry to get people sucked in - but then tell them different things more harshly when the person joins and becomes a witness ! Raymond Franz has sure been great to bring these contradictions to the forefront ! I believe you are very accurate when you say the WT society has rearranged and altered words to decieve people in their publications. I've seen it a lot too.
NO MORE KOOL AID- I agree with you that the witnesses use this " leaving for spiritual endangerment " as a loophole ! Definitely ! I agree also that the organization is a " breeding ground for abuse ". They set women up to be abused by a patriarchal society in which men dominate women. And you are right - What is a witness woman to do, or where can she go with no education if her husband has been a jerk-off towards her ? Only solution many times would be to leave and make a new start for herself , a new life and try to get an education ! Many have done just that.
WT WIZARD - Very true what you say. The WT society says one thing to get people in the door to door work sucked into the organization - then once they get in - bring the hatchet down on them with more control ! I agree with you - I can see the WT society getting desparate enough in the future to make members sign contracts of allegiance to obey the alledged " faithful and discreet slave " - especially if they start losing more and more members ! I feel the governing body is THAT controlling and paranoid ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
purplesofa

PURPLE SOFA- What's the difference in an unbelieving mate endangering a witness mates spirituality from a witness mate endangering another witness mates spirituality ? The believing mates spirituality is still being endangered, isn't it ? I don't see your point. Clarify perhaps please. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
There are many unbelieving mates that let their spouse worship God however they want to. How many pioneers are funded by unbelieving mates? How many UBM have been won over and became witnesses eventually.
On the other hand, I have a good friend, whose husband was once a PO and no longer believes. Their discussions over time, he began intercepting phonecalls and mail, so that she could not have contact with witnesses....and various other things, almost led to her seperating from him. She did not want to seperate. It did not mean she wavered from believing in Jehovah, but he was killing her spiritually. I have not talked to her for over a year now, since I have faded away, so I do not know what their status is anymore.
When I first came into the "truth" my mate was very opposed. The first year I did not put up an Xmas tree(we had 5 kids) he kicked me out of the house. The elders went to talk to him and smoothed things over, they were not trying to break up our marriage.
Anyway, it's easy to always pick everything the WT puts out and make them out to more villianious than they are. IMO, they have suceeded much better at splitting up marriages over worries about what kind of sex a couple are having.
purps
flipper

PURPLE SOFA- I know a number of sisters whose unbelieving husbands knowingly, or unknowingly funded their pioneer work. Happened often when I was a witness. Your point about the ex-presiding overseer husband bringing hardship to your friend so " she could not have contact with the witnesses " proves the point I was making precisely - That a witness can be " spiritually endangered " by a witness mate or a non-witness mate .
It's true some elders may try to settle differences between an unbelieving husband and his wife like the elders did in your case - however I've known of witness women married to polite unbelievers and for very trivial reasons " endangerment to spirituality " elders and friends of the witness sister have helped her move out of her husband's home and leave him - when he did NOTHING wrong but disagree with his wife's religious beliefs ! Witnesses take care of their own and watch out for their own - and as a general rule they couldn't care less what happens to an unbelieving mate . By the way - The WT society is more villainous than they appear ! Believe it. We don't see all the behind the scenes crap they pull. What I've seen from experience
BluesBrother

Things can vary in different areas, I know, but in all the long years of eldership, I never heard of a sister either wanting to leave (at least planning to do so) or this "Spiritual endangerment " argument ever arising.
The W T texts say that it would only be if he made it impossible for her to worship, not because he opposes. I knew several sisters who made compromises over Christmas etc, because of the headship rule, and that was ok. If flipper's friend was treated in that way, then either those elders were misled by the wife, or they were acting out of line
flipper

BLUES BROTHER- So you never saw this " absolute spiritual endangerment " thing used before by sisters ? Interesting. Out here in California on the " liberal " west coast of America it happened quite often in cases of women trying to drum up reasons to leave unbelieving husbands. My guy friend who was just DFed told me his marriage was really good until his wife found out he was on the internet and got busted for viewing and responding to apostate web sites ! But once his wife reported it to the elders ; they green lighted her the " absolute spiritual endangerment " card encouraging her to separate from him and my friends marriage was toast ! Really sad
flipper

Just wanted to bump this up for weekenders who haven't seen it and wanted to comment. Thanks, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
tijkmo

sorry ..still not seeing a contradiction
in both of the examples that you sited to begin with the message is the same...
absolute spiritual endangerment.....grounds for separation
unbelieving spouses willing to stay together.....stay together
if certain individuals decide to use the allowance of spiritual endangerment as grounds for separation where there is no spiritual endangerment...and some elders appear to sanction this...then that could hardly be considered to be evidence of a contradiction from the wts.
your topic does say 'how jehovah's witnesses view marraige' so you may have a point about individuals but your first post implied that this was a deliberate deception at decision-making level from hq..and that just simply isn't true

Notice this Contradiction on How Jehovah's Witnesses View Marriage

Share this