Jesus' Sacrifice. You call that a sacrifice? (page 3)

ThomasCovenant

Re Oompa

Glad you enjoyed Mr Deity. Try him over at www.crackle.com and just search 'Mr Deity'

I think there are more videos and better quality than at youtube. My brother told me about him a couple a years ago. I don't know how he found him but that's the beauty of the tinternet.

I think Mr Deity, like Farkel on this site, is excellent at showing up the silliness of some religious beliefs. Most people can laugh at it and then stop and think 'Yes but that's what I do think'

As regards my calculations. Well they are obviously not to be taken too literally, brother, as the day = 1000 years is currently an unproven mathematical constant and is very likely to remain so. But yes I did try working it out

Jesus life of about 33 years = 0.033 of 1000 years therefore 0.033 of a day is about 48 minutes.

Jesus in Sheol for 3 days = 0.00000821 of 1000 years therefore 0.00000821 of a day (consisting of 86400 seconds) is about 7/10ths of a second

So perhaps I was giving too much credit in saying 7 whole seconds. Good God, sometimes I blink my eyes for longer than he was dead.

The main point though is as Watson said

'I don't understand how a deity letting himself die, then resurecting himself is an equal or greater sacrifice than a man losing his life with no chance of forgiveness or resurection.'

This doesn't look to be a point that lovers of human sacrifice seem willing to address.

Thanks

Thomas Covenant

snowbird

Sylvia,
I don't understand how a deity letting himself die, then resurecting himself is an equal or greater sacrifice than a man losing his life with no chance of forgiveness or resurection.

Watson, the idea of some not having the opportunity for forgiveness or a resurrection originated with man, not God.

I believe Adam and Eve will be resurrected, notwithstanding WT doctrine that teaches otherwise.

Sylvia

Simon

Some regular humans have made more sacrifices to help people they do not know, sometimes just another single human life and with no knowledge that they will be magically whisked up to heaven as a new king.

The bible story doesn't even have a good plot. It's a script to a B movie.

oompa

This thread has actually made me think....dammit. Now i realize that there was zero ransom in any way, shape, or form.....here is why. If your family is kidnapped and held for ransom....and you really want them back so things will be just like what they were before they were kidnapped.........and you go to pay the ransom money......and the nice kidnappers agree to actually give you your family back....but then you decide to snatch the ransom right back.....then it was not a paid ransom....and you dont get your family back..............oompa

snowbird

This may be helpful to some.

http://www.facingthechallenge.org/ransom.php

Sylvia

BurnTheShips

an equal or greater sacrifice than a man losing his life with no chance of forgiveness or resurection.

No man dies without a chance of forgiveness or resurrection.

BTS

undercover

To the Christian, it's God Himself who came as a human in order to do the Godly and humanly work of redemption.

So Jesus is God...God came down, placed himself as a fetus in a virgin's womb, grew up as a human Jew, "learned" carpentry and went around preaching about himself to anyone who would listen.

A couple of questions...

Who was watching the shop when Jesus/God decided to play human?

Whose voice from heaven declared Jesus/God as his son, the beloved, who is approved?

Who was Jesus/God talking to, when on the implement of torturous death, said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Was that like saying, Oh shit...why did I let myself get talked into this...

But back to the original point, yea the ransom sacrifice thing is total BS. God, the Almighty creator of everything can't just declare absolute power and control and stomp out disobedient creation but allows them to breed and create even more disobedient ones. In return, he's gonna send his number one Son, himself, to give his life in exchange.

What it really is, is religion's way of saying that they can't explain sin and death other than making up this bit about God "allowing" it to prove a point. Prove a point to who? If he truly created everything, he doesn't have to answer to anyone...period.

An illustration: A man invents a widget. It's a great widget, best thing since sliced bread. The man builds a plant to build widgets to sell. He hires employees to run the plant and build the widgets. After a while one of the employees says he can build a better widget. He attempts to change the way the plant runs and talks employees into believing his way is better. What does the inventer do? In the real world, he fires his ass. In fantasy land, or religious land, he says, "Ya know, Bob, you raise an interesting question. Can you build a better widget? Well, let's see. I'll let you run the company however you see fit for so many years to see if you're way is better. At the end of the that time, I'm sending in my Son to take over the business and then you'll be fired, because I know my way is better since I invented it, but just to be fair, I'm giving you the oppurtunity to be proven wrong before I kill, er, fire you.

snowbird

Who was watching the shop when Jesus/God decided to play human? The Father.

Whose voice from heaven declared Jesus/God as his son, the beloved, who is approved? The Father's.

Who was Jesus/God talking to, when on the implement of torturous death, said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" The Father.

Was that like saying, Oh shit...why did I let myself get talked into this... ? No, it was the despairing cry of loss of fellowship with the Father.

Final thoughts: Jesus didn't just play human - he was human.

His poignant and despairing cry of "my God, my God," could that have reflected how Adam felt when he was put out of the Garden?

Sylvia

undercover

Pardon my cynicism....

But I can't see how anyone who was a JW (or any other fundie or cult member, maybe any religion for that matter) and freed themselves from that poppycock can grab hold of the illogical nonsense of a God who is his own son and who was human but was in heaven while on earth.

It's like realizing Star Trek isn't real but still believing Star Wars is...

It just boggles the (logical) brain...

snowbird

UC, I felt the same way at one time.

I don't subscribe to the Trinity, but I'm convinced both the Father and the Son are God.

Sylvia

Jesus' Sacrifice. You call that a sacrifice?

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