Watchtower Propaganda

by JosephAlward 78 Replies latest jw friends

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    The main problem with your reasoning Joseph is that the Watchtower of 20 years ago would never do such a thing. They are becoming WORLDLY, and that is why so many old-time faithful witnesses are leaving. Compromise may be good for the sake of the 6 million Witnesses, but it is fast becoming an entirely different religion, not unlike many others who have lost the ability to excercise extreme authoritiarian attitudes.

    The ones who applaud the WT for this move are a new generation who never felt a lot of the extreme idealism, such as the party card issue in Malawi, etc. The idealists are leaving in large numbers, with the people remaining being no more than Protestant parishioners who still feel they are of the exclusive elite. But the foundation of "ethics" is gone. Would Jesus have joined the UN as an NGO? This is the real crux of the matter.

    Yes, the WT will change and become less of a cult, just like the Mormons and others. Because they HAVE to. But the original meaning of the religion is lost, and the old-time zealots with it. Compromise is the new keyword in the Watchtower.
    Randy Watters
    '

  • FideiDefensor
    FideiDefensor

    The answer might be found if those with the WT CD researched to see the type of articles concerning the UN that were printed in the Awake! before '91. If there is a definate difference in tone after '91 then it should be plain they were trying to suck up to the UN.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    You want to get a sense of how the Awake treated the UN go read the Oct 8 and 22, 1985 magazines.

    They talk about the beast and slam the UN etc.

    hawk

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    I think Randy makes some very good points. In a way, it is why I left when I did 13 years ago. I was an idealist. I believed it was 100% or nothing. The more I found how small a minority I was in feeling that way as the years went on, the less it made since for me to stay and keep trying to be wholesouled myself.

    Its definitely not the religion now that it was in the 1960's.

    As far as joining the UN to get a library card. I think that reason makes their joining even worse. Becoming a part of an organization that you believe specifically stands in opposition to God in a similar manner to Nimrod, claiming itself to be achieving what only God can achieve and to affiliate yourself for as silly a reason as to get access to information, not even something serious, not as though that information wouldn't be available in a thousand other places, ludicrous.

    It was a compromise, clearly. Most witnesses compromise all the time on issues that affect them personally. Even the most active witnesses I have ever known have always had their own personal issues they were willing to turn a blind eye too.

    When I found this to be the rule rather than the exception, I gave up.

    take care

    Joel

  • Trevor Scott
    Trevor Scott

    Mr. Skeptic,

    You are so far away from the mark on this - perhaps you should stick to debunking the bible.

    Rather than disseminating UN propaganda with "favorable articles," as Randall Watters and others have claimed, the Watchtower seems merely to be highlighting the United Nations' failures...

    Those who are quick to claim that the articles are propaganda for the UN fail to see the truth, in my view; these articles are not propaganda for the UN; they're propaganda for the Watchtower.

    If the WTS was not running "propaganda for the UN", then why does one of their articles appear on the UN Office of the High Commissioner website, as a commemorative article?

    : http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm

    Tell me, how does advertising UN International years comprise "propaganda for the Watchtower"?

    : http://www.geocities.com/wts_lies/observances.htm

    Does the Watchtower Society still point out the failures of the UN? Sure, why wouldn't they? The UN themselves do this. And the wts does still claim the UN is the scarlet-colored wild beast after all. If they can get away with doing this, while still living up to their responsibility to support and promote the beast, then they score twice, don't they?

    The Watchtower was exploiting the UN, not helping it
    Of course they were helping the UN. The wts had to submit regular samples of their work to the UN. Were these articles not helping the UN, the UN would have canned the wts as an associate NGO - as they do regularly when NGOs don't fulfil their obligations to support the UN.

    Call it a "mutual usership". The UN used the WTS to spread UN propaganda; the WTS used the UN for whatever it is they wanted out of the deal - notoriety, legitimacy, UN airplane rides, whatever. In the end it all comes down to money anyway.

    TS,

    Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
    : http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm

  • avengers
  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    My purpose in making posts about the accusations leveled against the Watchtower is to explain why I think that too much of what has been said on this matter has been hyperbole. Well-meaning current and former Witnesses are exaggerating the misdeeds of the Watchtower, in my opinion. I certainly could be wrong, but based on the evidence I've seen, I don't think so. Until I see better evidence, I will not believe, for example, that the Watchtower submitted an application or reapplication form on which they agreed to accept the aims and goals of the UN, nor will I disbelieve the Watchtower's claim that they believed they had to be affiliated with the DPI in order to fully access all of the UN's material (I interpret this to mean that they wished to remove materials from the library.)

    When I first read in this forum and on Randy's site the allegations of hypocrisy, I was given the impression that the Watchtower accepted the aims and goals of the United Nations when they submitted their application form in 1991, and then reaffirmed their acceptance of these goals when they submitted reapplication forms. One forum member flatly stated that such a form existed, signed by the Watchtower, and many others led me to believe that this was true. When I looked more closely into these claims, I found that there has never been a requirement that the applicants for affiliation with the DPI sign a statement saying they accepted the principles of the UN.

    While it's true that the UN expected that NGOs accept the UN's principles, the determination of whether this was true seems always to have been left up to the ones reviewing the application form. The determination was based on the organization's description of its activities; if, in the judgment of the reviewer, the activities seemed to be consistent with the goals of the UN--or at least, some of the goals--then it was just assumed that the organization accepted the aims and goals of the UN. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Watchtower accepted the goals of the UN; the UN may have thought they did, but what they thought, and what was actually true are two different things.

    Thus, it is not true, as so many were claiming, that the Watchtower accepted in secret the aims and goals of the UN; all they did was allow the UN to believe whatever they wished to believe; to disabuse them of this notion would hamper the preaching work of the Watchtower, so not divulging the truth in this matter was entirely consistent with their teaching. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work. --The Watchtower, May 1, 1957, p. 285-286

    I've also seen no credible evidence in rebuttal of Gillies' claim that the application was made to enable the Watchtower's writers access to UN material. Many on this forum have accused Gillies of lying about this, but I don't see enough evidence yet to justify this assertion. While it's no doubt true that much of the UN's material is available to the general public, why would an ID card not be required for those patrons who wanted to take materials out of the library? Gillies said the Watchtower's writer had an ID card, which was returned after the scandal broke; why would he lie about something that could so easily be checked? Has anyone checked this out? Is it true that certain materials could be removed from the library only by patrons carrying an ID card, and is it true that one way to obtain such a card is to become affiliated with the DPI?

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

    * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Jehovahs Witnesses should applaud the affliation of the WBTS and the UN? R U NUTS or WHAT?People have gone to jail or died because WBTS demanded that JWS should have no affiliation with goverment agencys.Who gives a rats ass whether the watchtower made the UN look good or bad in their articles.People have gone to jail or died because the WBTS demanded that JWS should have no affiliation wih government agencys.WBTS voluntarily joined a govenment affiliated agency.People have gone to jail or died because WBTS demanded JWS should have no affiliation with government agencys.Have you got the point of my post yet?If not I will explain it one more time.PEOPLE HAVE GONE TO JAIL OR DIED BECAUSE WBTS DEMANDED THAT JWS SHOULD HAVE NO AFFILIATION WITH GOVERNMENT AGENCYS.Do you get it yet?These bastards should not be applauded,they should be tried in a court of law and found guilty of accessory to murder...OUTLAW

  • messenger
    messenger

    Joseph, you are full of shit.....

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Joe

    The wt associating itself w the un dpi is THE issue. If you read the wt quotes on the other threads, this should be clear. When i was a kid, i was taught that saluting thr flag was an act of worship to an idol, a false god called the flag. This worship went ultimately to satan. I was forbidden to recite the lords prayer w all the other kids because the wt considered it an act of religious sharing w false satanic religions. I suffered a lot for those stands i took as a kid. You don't know how hard the ridicule, ostracism and sometimes physical abuse that i went through was on me. Looking back, those were such silly things for the wt to make an issue about, yet i lived by wt doctrines. Forming a un assiation is worse than these two issues i mentioned, yet it was done voluntarily by the top leadership. Such a small thing, yet such a huge renunciation of thier own teachings/ideals/alliegence.

    SS

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