Watchtower Propaganda

by JosephAlward 78 Replies latest jw friends

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  Monica

  Joseph - All of that doesn't really matter. JWs disfellowship the average rank and file for joining the local YMCA, but yet the WTBTS goes and joins up as an NGO - a Satan-run organization. If you showed the average rank and file JW a copy of the NGO brochure and asked them if these members are a part of Satan's worldly organization, I assure you, they'd say yes. Then ask them if they can join an organization of Satan's to further the work. They'll tell you 'no!'. That's because the Watchtower tells them that members of Satan's worldy organization will be destroyed.

  JWs aren't allowed to participate in the military, because they'd be supporting Satan's world (as someone above said). Some JWs sit in jail (some have been killed as someone said above) because of it. How is that furthering their work? Wouldn't it be better if they just allowed these JWs to do their military time so that they can then further the work? Wouldn't the word be spread more if these JWs were out of jail or alive? Why do they forbid these JWs from participating in Satan's world to further the work, but allow their corporate dudes to sign right up? It's so completely hypocritical and think of the lives that are messed up because they aren't allowed to join a Satan run organization.

  Of all organizations that the Watchtower could have joined to further the work - they picked the most controversial one. They know it and that's why they kept it from their members. If I was still a JW and someone showed me proof that the Watchtower was an NGO, along with the NGO brochure, I don't think I'd even believe it, because to believe it - it would mean that my whole world would come crashing down.

  If you have never been a JW - I can understand how lightly you view this. But as a former JW, I can tell you that this is a big deal.
• 

  biblexaminer

  I don't know why ya'll try to reason with this Alward character. It's obvious that he's an idiot.
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  Monica

  I just wanted to add that the poor JWs who sit in jail because they are instructed that they can't join the military I guess are furthering the work. These stories make it to the media. Is that why they don't let these ones join the military? So that they can further the work through publicity? That's a pretty evil thought.
• 

  MadApostate

  Monica:

  The thoughts in your last post reminded me of this thread:

  . http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=16141&site=3
• 

  crownboy

  Joseph seems to believe that the very act of joining a UN NGO isn't that important when indeed it is. He seems to think that because the Watchtower joined to get a library card, that coming down hard on them on this issue is somewhat unwarranted.

  However, the Watchtower joining the UN is a big issue! People could be dissfellowshipped for joining the YMCA, not because you would be "supporting the charter" of the organization, but because you were mearly associated with the organization. No distinction is made between active support and mearly using the athletic facilities. The JW belief is any association with a member of Satan's organization, be it active or benign, is unacceptable! By the societies lofty standards on the YMCA, there's no way they can justify being any part of what they characterize as the "grand daddy" of all of Satan's organizations.

  The Society could have become an NGO so that they could have access to the UN's toilet facilities, it wouldn't matter. Just their association with "the wild beast" is unacceptable. All JW's know they could never do what the society did and get away with it, so if they think of it as a good thing, they are being intellectually dishonest since what the Watchtower did is inconsistent with its own policy.

  Also, as was mentioned, the post-NGO articles in the Awake are undeniably more friendly toward the UN than previous articles were on the organization. Joseph, no one really belives that the Watchtower joined as an NGO to be all cuddly with the "wild beast" or to have Koffi Anan over to Bethel for a grand tour . No doubt it was done because it was advantagous for the Watchtower to do so, but so would joining the YMCA be for me if I needed access to a swiming pool. However, in the JW world only the Society itself can make such a decision, and that's wrong.

  Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!
• 

  Monica

  MA,
  GRRRRRRRR!!! Thanks for sharing that thread. I don't make it to the board often enough and I must have missed that one. It's just heart-breaking, isn't it? People are actually sitting in jail because of their hypocritical policies. I guess to the WTBTS, these people sitting in prison are more helpful there than going door-to-door. Persecution receives more publicity than door-to-door work. Sad!
• 

  Trevor Scott

  Until I see better evidence, I will not believe, for example, that the Watchtower submitted an application or reapplication form on which they agreed to accept the aims and goals of the UN...

  Thus, it is not true, as so many were claiming, that the Watchtower accepted in secret the aims and goals of the UN; all they did was allow the UN to believe whatever they wished to believe

  Notice,

  "By accepting association with the DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations..."

  "The NGOs officially recognized by DPI cooperate with the United Nations to help build public understanding and support for United Nations programmes and goals."

  The first quote is an excerpt from a letter from Paul Hoeffel, Chief of the UN DPI-NGO Section. He is speaking specifically about the WTS and says that they agreed to support the principles of the UN Charter.

  The second quote is from a 1992 press release, the year the wts signed on with the UN.

  Couple this with the pro-UN articles appearing in WT rags for the past ten years. There is no question the WTS was lending support to the United Nations - even if that support was only lip service.

  So is it ok to bow down to an idol if I don't really mean it?

  so not divulging the truth in this matter was entirely consistent with their teaching. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.

  Joseph, I don't think anyone here is suggesting the wts was completely honest with the UN. We all know they were using or exploiting (as you say) the UN. And you're right that this is consistent with their teaching about being dishonest when it suits them. But this does not change the fact that the wts did agree to support the UN, and lived up to that commitment by running UN propaganda in their publications (and submitting samples of their articles to the UN).

  Now all "theocratic warfare" aside, how can God's channel of communication be used as a channel of communication for the scarlet-colored wild beast? What jw believes Jehovah God would share his channel with the beast?

  TS,

  Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
  : http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
• 

  hawkaw

  I see Joe can't figure out that the ID card wasn't a lie even though I explained it too him.

  Mad Apostate - I forgot about that one. Thanks.

  Trevor - Joe doesn't believe in the Hoeffel letter. He sluffs it off and doesn't believe it because the WTS apparently didn't sign a waiver form.

  What can I say except, every single other non-JW who I know and have showed this stuff too knows exactly what the problem is.

  hawk
• 

  JosephAlward

  My intent in making these posts is to explain why an objective observer might believe that some critics of the Watchtower are deliberately exaggerating that organization's hypocrisy.

  One of the exaggerations is the allegation that the Watchtower agreed to accept the principles of the United Nations. Most of the members of this forum, I believe, at one time falsely believed that the Watchtower agreed to accept the aims and goals of the United Nations; there is at least one person on this forum who still continues to insist that this is a fact.

  It is not a fact, as far as I can see.

  Paul Hoeffel said that the "By accepting association with the DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations," but this does not mean that the Watchtower agreed to anything of the sort. All Hoeffel is saying is that if the DPI accepts the NGO for affiliation, it first will have assumed that the organization supports the UN's principles, based on the organization's description of its activities. Nobody on this forum believes that the Watchtower agreed to accept the principles of the UN. The UN just assumed that this was so, but that does not make it true.

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
• 

  JosephAlward

  I spoke to the librarian at Dag Hammerskold library in New York this afternoon. She tells me that "since time immemorial" access to the UN library requires a "grounds pass," (they're not called "ID cards") which allows one into the building. Once past the guard at the door, access to any material inside is possible. Grounds passes are obtained by submitting requests on "raised letterhead" from the institution you represent, and these requests must present evidence that there is a legitimate "research need" that will be met by library access; generally "one, or two, or three" persons only from that institution may use the grounds pass. Grounds passes are not issued when one becomes affiliated with the DPI because the DPI does not issue grounds passes; the security department of the library issues those. NGOs affiliated with the DPI would still have to submit a request for a grounds pass on raised letterhead, but the fact of the affiliation would stand as evidence of a legitimate research need, so no further evidence would be necessary.

  Thus, patrons who are not staff members of the UN or delegates must apply for a grounds pass to get into the library. Ground passes are granted to institutions which have a legitimate research need, such as universities or humanitarian organizations; NGOs which are affiliated with the DPI are assumed to have such a need.

  Many have accused Paul Gillies of lying when he said that affiliation with DPI was made only for the purpose of accessing UN materials. Look at what Gillies said:

  In 1991 one of our legal corporations registered with the United Nations as a NGO (non-governmental organization) for the sole purpose of gaining access to the extensive library for research purposes…

  The information presented to me this afternoon supports what Gillies said.

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html