by sir82 51 Replies latest jw friends
Is the question not important? ........( Don't sweat the small stuff.. it's all small stuff except God's love ) (My acknowledge personal opinion only )
I dunno, if I had lost a child, I'd consider it a pretty important issue.
And if there are only 2 destinies, and Sylvia's conjecture is correct, that there are no babies in heaven, then...as a parent, I'd be really perturbed.
Or are the concerns of grieving parents also "small stuff"?
Or are the concerns of grieving parents also "small stuff"?
I feel for grieving parents but at least the Christan's hope even if hazy speaks of hope ?
What would you say to atheist parents about their beloved dead child ? ~~Cal
OK, so far we have the following opinions:
A) Babies get a free pass into heaven
B) Babies don't go to heaven at all, but the poster is unable or unwilling to explain what does happen to them
C) It doesn't matter where babies go, just have hope & trust in God
Any other believers who have a different idea? So far I'm not getting a consistent picture of "orthodox" Christian teaching
And regarding my poor young Chinese ignorant peasant, so far it seems he is consigned to hell, but it's somebody else's fault (the Christians who didn't get to him in time).
Is that really the orthodox view? Anyone else who cares to chime in?
"So far I'm not getting a consistent picture of "orthodox" Christian teaching "
Again a WT thought there must be only one true understanding of else all it lost. This would be very important
if salvatiion depend on "accurate knowedge " New World translations Bible.. other Bibles say knowing God
Love is the all important thing !
Caliber
Is the question not important? ........( Don't sweat the small stuff.. it's all small stuff except God's love ) (My acknowledge personal opinion only )
Yeah...it's all small stuff until the "loving" bible god wants to punish you with everlasting torment for not knowing the rules of the game, or if you choose to not play that particular game. So...Cal, let's just say I told you to go play buzkashi. However you don't know the rules and you have no idea how to play, or maybe you would choose to play another game. I now tell you that you are forced to play the game, and play according to the rules or I will kill you or burn you forever in hell. Oh..and by the way??? I LOVE YOU. I am sure you would cry foul...but then that's just small stuff, isn't it Cal?
I am always amazed at how obtuse and limited the christian mind and philosophy is. It reminds me of my neighbor who, while a christian, cheated on her husband several times, snorted cocaine, abandoned her child to carry on the things that she wanted to do..but alas who went back to church and had been back for about a year and informed me that I was going to hell because I no longer believed in christianity. I explained that I had been married for 27 years, have always been faithful, don't take drugs, work very hard, and help others to the best of my ability and finances (all which she knows to be true as we have been neighbors for a long time). Nope, doesn't matter. I am still going to hell because I don't believe in Jebus or the Bible Tyrant. I laughed and said that maybe that might be a problem if I believed in god, or hell, in the first place. But considering I don't I pretty much have nothing to worry about.
exjdub (who is tired of all the christian bullshit that gets passed around)
Ps: Buzkashi for those who would like to play:
The object of buzkashi — a popular game in Afghanistan — is to grab the goat, gallop round the pole with the carcass in hand, race back toward the circle and drop the goat inside.
Most regular Christians would say that, even though we were born in original sin, the babies and the peasant that never heard of Christ would go to heaven (assuming the peasant wasn't outright wicked). Which I think is complete crap, since the "Original Sin" is hogwash designed to coerce people into going to church and hounding others to become Christians Paulians.
exjdub,
Thanks for explaining the meaning of your game" buzkashi "... that being a race with grabbing a goat
and racing around a pole. I must confess the only other event or ritual involving a goat that I know is
called "scapegoat " Urban dictionary defines it a follows......
Sir, I'm neither unwilling nor unable to voice my views.
As far as I am concerned, there are holes in both orthodox Christianity and JW teachings.
I stated that the Bible teaches that there are no babies in heaven. Here is where I get that belief:
John 3: 13 No one has ever gone up into the presence of God except the One who came down from that Presence, the Son of Man.
You asked what is the 3rd option?
Resurrecting and reuniting the babies and their parents on earth. Yes, I said on earth. I believe "heaven" is coming to earth. See Revelation chapters 20 and 21.
I also believe that humans who were aborted - spontaneously or deliberately - are going to be reunited with their parents in order that nothing may be lost and that the Evil One may not have won.
You may want to look up those Scriptures that state that the Son of Man came to save that which is lost, that He is to restore all things, and that He is to break up the works of the Devil.
Those are my beliefs, not JW, not orthodox Christian. Mine.
Thank you.
Sylvia
I'm with Caliber that no need to fret... Not every little detail about every little thing in life is covered in scripture, but when you know the "basic Spirit" of God and His personality, you can be assured He will do the right thing re: EVERYBODY, from babies who died too young to isolated individuals in outer Mongolia. In other words, for myself, I do trust Him to "take care of it" so I don't have to worry about it (which is the opposite of WT-Land where they made us feel like we "had" to have an instant answer for EVERYTHING.).
Here's an article that may help: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/infantsa.htm
| What We Can Learn From the Bible Concerning |
| INFANT SALVATION |
LeavingWT said: "Everlasting life is a free gift and cannot be earned, right? But, God only draws certain ones." (referring toJohn 6:43-44)... God gives everybody a measure of faith (Rom. 12:3), so it's up to us whether we act on it when we "hear" God calling us...
Not to mention that His qualities are clearly evident and most people ignore those as well...
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown [it] to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. - Romans 1:18-21
I think God calls everybody... numerous times throughout their lives... a nudge here, a nudge there, a tap on the head here, and a kick in the butt there (trying to get people to wake up), but most people ignore it, suppress it, dismiss it, reject it, etc., as the above verses describe.
For instance, when you were a kid and your Mom called to you down the street to come home for "supper," did you always immediately come, or did you blow her off and hang around w/your buddies a little longer, playing ball?
So, ok, God calls first. Waits for response.
Nothing.
God calls again... waits for response...
Nothing.
God calls again... waits for response...
Nothing...
---------
OK, my point is, God is calling, but is a person going to "run to Jesus" on their own if they're ignoring the call of God on their life? In other words, God is calling but the person is not always ready nor listening, but when they finally are, He'll send them to Jesus, as John 6:43-44 says. That's how I see it, anyhooo. HTH.
