"The Elders" (page 3)

reniaa

hi quietly leaving, if you mean I am using bible as final authority on this subject? then yes I am as a christian who believes in Jehovah the bible is the standard by which all is meassured for me.

hi fokyc, in what way are you applying lying? If you mean what they teach? well I personally think hellfire is a lie but I fully appreciate that followers of christendom believe it is real, so to themselves they are not lying. and so the same applies to elders who truly believe what the Jw's preach, as I do myelf, I think the bible clearly shows the appostles were being trained to be in leadership/shepherd roles 'fishers of men' 'feed my sheep' so to me this isn't a lie.

lol you may have to elaborate hun?

minimus

Very interesting thread. Great comments!!!

Ren, you seem concerned about "leadership". Trust me, the elders are not leaders. They are followers, puppets.

Having some organization within a group is not necessarily a bad thing at all. REQUIRING TOTAL CONTROL is!

Elders CANNOT read hearts. They do not know if a person is "truly repentant" yet the Society teaches the elders to err on the side of caution and throw mercy out the window when trying to determine if one is truly repentant. BLANK THEM! They have no right to make judgments. They need to read the book of James a little more carefully. (Oh, they did that in the 70s and decided to ignore it because it was written by "APOSTATES". Hmmm. I thought Jehovah God was feeding the "Slave".....He must've been busy attending to other more important things, I guess).

cawshun

I am not a JW nor do I belong to any man made religion. I have read the NT and by accepting Jesus, I take on his personality and by doing so I may have everlasting life.

I do not need an elder to watch over me, I have the Lord Jesus Christ. I know when I sin, I know what I have to do to get right. I know in my heart if I'm pleasing my heavenly Father.

If a person believes in the bible they don't need a man made religion to get them life everlasting, all they have to do is read the NT and they know what is required. One either acts on it or they don't. Whats so difficult about that.

The WT, the catholic church, the baptist, the penticostals, no religion can save you, only you can save yourself.

Reneaa, if your so bent on being a true JW, why are you here? Your not likely to convert any one here back to being a JW. So you are going against the WT teachings by being on an apostate forum. People here could cause you to stumble. Are you above that teaching? If they found out you were here, what would happen to you? Will an elder go easy on you? How about a JC hearing?

The trouble with JWs, none of them are on the same page. They all do what they want to do, but still like to tell others what they can and can't do.

In fact, its not just the JW's, its all man made religions. I don't need them, I only need Christ as my savour.

AllTimeJeff

Reneaa

Whatever your personal feelings about the bible or Jesus, there is a lot of problems with the elders as JW's use them.

The issue is not leadership. The GB touts the elders as being shepherds of the flock, taking the lead by example in meetings and FS. They are to prepare their parts before the congregation as best they can, and be both active and visible in FS, working with the flock in these critical areas.

From a JW construct, I (hypothetically) do not have a problem with the description above. Thats what I thought I was buying into.

As an elder, I learned quickly that holy spirit is not active at all on elders as the GB describes it. The bible is not used, even when going over the qualifications of brothers. The Organization book and WT articles are discussed, with scriptures quoted. When preparing for and participating in judicial matters, the bible is used at best 50/50, at worst only a couple of key scriptures are discussed, to establish a link between the sin, the WT's interpretation of it, and the sinner. After that, WT articles are featured intensively.

Elders have to deal with pedophiles according to state law. I can't tell you how hypocritical it is. Dealing with intellectual and conscientious disagreements, or even serious questions are dealt with harshly. The message, to be given through the elders from the Service Dept is "We don't care about your questions, be happy you are with us. Please send a response telling you that are happy, or else...."

Of course, this varies from cong to cong. So there can be some relatively positive elder experiences, and I know of good elder bodies overall. Most are volunteers who did not understand what they signed up for.

The problem with JW elders are not the people, it is the leadership of the GB and the Service Dept that is forced upon the elders.

Why elders are so needed by the flock is the structure they enforce and provide. Everyone's response to an elder and the entire construct of the JW hiearchy is proportional to their own need, or lack thereof, of structure provided by others. If one is able to take care of their own needs spiritually, the less one needs of the elders or JW's as a whole. Organized religion provides structure and direction for those that would otherwise not be able to find it themselves, or in themselves.

minimus

The Watchtower Society's "elder arrangement" is not scriptural. It is "Organizational".

reniaa

hi all time jeff you say fair comment but you focus in on imperfection, I buy into the first statement like you do, and you say yourself we can make it that way with a set of good elders this is what is taught and this is what people want! Isn't that what we will get? If all are taught this?

I know one good elder can really enhance a congregation, one that emphasises love and understanding my old cong had such an elder he was disabled but to this day he is a good man, he recently did a funeral for a past witness friend of mine whose mum died, she says his personal remarks were very moving.

lBefore people ask I recently started meeting a few old witness friends with a view to returning they are nice and encouraging, it would be called love-bombing on here.

Well i'm not or never will be an elder so I can only talk in a limited way on this subject.

AllTimeJeff

There is a difference between theory and practical application reniaa. Whatever you personally get out of your ideas regarding religion are in no way emblematic of the experience of tens of thousands....

There is no convincing someone who wants to go back. It sounds like you have your mind made up, which is your right and perrogative. The idea of elder bodies are ok. As I have said, any group/religion will have its own hiearchy, and there isn't one that can claim it does a real good job.

This thread started intitially I believe, with the thought that men aspire to be elders, that it isn't all that it is advertised to be. Between this and the severe mood swings of the GB and the Service Dept, it creates a dynamic that really affects tens of thousands in an adverse way.

Reinaa, you or anyone else's observations are very important, because theoretically, the elders are for you. As you know, I maintain that they are first about the authority of the GB, and you are secondary to that. I have seen absolute evidence to this.

In any case, I hope you find what you are looking for. Critics of JW's will not help you on your journey reniaa, but please do not minimize their criticism. It is real, valid, and meaningful. The truth's behind these criticisms, the experiences of tens of thousands who have lifetime scars due to their JW experience, cannot and should not be ignored. No matter what JW's teach, it is much more valid if they themselves actually follow it, not when times are good, but when they are tested.

Mene, Mene, Tekel, Parsin. JW's have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.....

KAYTEE

Elders.

Elders are in a position of teaching, teaching to the public.

James 3 v1, not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we receive heavier judgement.

There is a clear warning to make SURE what you are teaching is accurately researched and investigated before opening your mouth, not to accept just the wts version, but to get outside the box !, ………………(they have been wrong a "few" times in the past ?

Fokyc,

These glorious ones cant be that bad surely!!!!!!!

KT

reniaa

true Kaytee, we should teach what we find to be true, but lets put it like this if I was a man and either an elder or a priest or a evolutionist teacher, looking at what I would have to teach those under me, there for me is the most truth in what the Jw's preach biblically than the other two.

hi all time jeff, I agree with you theory is not practical application but then if it is human imperfection that is causing the failing of the practical isn't that going to condemn all religions? if that is our measure?

If we cannot find an absolute faith to follow should we stop being elders or followers of any faith, should we bury our 'talent'?

Isn't the point we have the treasure of God's word given to us to use and we have a directive to go and use it/preach it and if we don't use it are we as condemned as any faith that at least has the sincerity of belief on their side if nothing else?

KAYTEE

reniaa,

I was in the org. for 30 years, I thought I could hold myself against anyone when it came to finding and using scriptures.

When I left (because of U.N. involvment etc.) and read many other books, (frowned on by the wts) I realised that they have not got the sole rights to his word, and they certainly did not have the correct interpretations of the scriptures, they have got SO MANY PROPHESIES WRONG, you have to take seriously the scripture in Deu.18 20 –22. There Jehovah is telling us not to be taken in.

As I say after 30 years I believe in Jehovah and Jesus Christ but my knowledge I believe is very questionable eg;

What do I think is going to happen after death!!!!!!!!!!

I know all the scriptures in Isaiah, Psalms, Revelation, but there are others that make you wonder what the real answer is, in other words I can find the scriptures, but as to their true meaning I am lost.

KT

"The Elders"

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