Wow!! I wish my in-laws would ask me that question but I know they won't because they are afraid I will burst their bubble. LOL
My Witness Mom Asks " What Doubts Have you Had ? " - My Honest Reply
by flipper 22 Replies latest jw friends
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flipper
Thanks for all the replies ! Really good points you make. I'll respond.
SCARRED for LIFE- Thanks Scarred. I've always had an open communication with my mom. Not so much my elder father, but mom's authentic personality has always outshined her witness personality in my opinion. I feel very lucky to have her.
HOMEROVAH- I agree with you on your take regarding your father. I think that is what got my mom and dad into the witnesses as well at ages 26 and 24. They felt they needed some kind of security for their 3 young children at the time ( I didn't come around till 8 years later after they became witnesses I was the baby the 4th child ) and so they thought the witnesses held all the answers. Now, here in 2009 that they are in their 80's I can imagine they inwardly are discouraged Armageddon never came and they are not in a paradise. I have empathy for them also.
DACHEECH- It is a strange viewpoint based on mind control that they have ! Even though bad things go on inside the witnesses- they still think they are backed by God. Weird.
SHOPAHOLIC- I agree- My mom has always been open minded and non-judgmental. Unlike many witnesses. She will really listen to your viewpoints. I feel she really does understand everything I've been through. Glad to hear your niece got out !
LOOSIE - Man ! Isn't THAT the truth ! Millions of $$$$$ in writing a book would help make the pain go away for sure ! Yeah, mom is a real open minded person ! I think Awakened in Gilead and myself have the coolest mom's of anybody on the board ! LOL!
SNAKES in the TOWER- Just be kind and authentic to your mom . Like my mom as you know every witness is mind controlled. They can't help it truly. They don't see it. So just by explaining things to your mom CAREFULLY with cautiously chosen words you can get your points across to her. My mom is reasonable and doesn't get too flighty or emotional so she will listen. If your mom gets upset or emotional , back off and hit it another day. Good luck with your mom !
OOMPA- My mom and dad HAVE been aware of most everything I've gone through since being out of the witnesses for 5 years. It's just that I don't tell them EVERY little DETAIL - so my mom was thankful to hear how everything went down in the elders attempt to string my spiritual balls to the wall. I'm glad I did fill her in with the details as my ex-wife ( the fanatic witness who is bonkers ) tried to turn my parents against me by interfering with Mrs. Flipper and my life 1 month before our marriage. Then my older brother ( an elder ) guilted my older mom and dad to write shunning letters to me and my wife just before our marriage. Fortunately my mom saw through the BS and made up her own mind that I was in the right and DID NOT shun me. What a mess. eh ? Glad THAT'S over.
BABA YAGA- Yeah, I love my mom too ! She's great ! I wanted her to see that although God, or Jehovah, or whatever we call him would hold the elders responsible - that the WT society would NEVER hold the elders responsible. I wanted her to hear and see that there was a difference there ! Hopefully she'll think on it !
JWS- Yes- I agree with what you are saying. My parents know I disagree on the child abuse issues, how it's handled, and I disagree on their view of higher education. That's about as " doctrinal " as I get in any discussion with them . But mainly, yes I have issues with the unjust treatment by elders towards EVERYBODY in the organization. I'm not looking at pulling my mom or dad out, or changing them at this point in their lives. She asked an honest question - and I gave her an honest explanation. So I will leave it at that. I know they have some friends in the organization and I wouldn't want them to forfeit that so late in their lives. I agree. As long as my mom and dad show me real, authentic non-witness love - it's all good for me. And they do.
QUIRKY- Maybe someday your in-laws WILL ask you some questions ! Just be prepared ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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drew sagan
My mom asked, " Well, don't you think Jehovah will hold those elders accountable for the wrong actions they committed unjustly towards you ? " And I replied, " Yes, Jehovah may hold them accountable mom, but the Watchtower society will never hold them accountable for their actions ! " Then she said, " Well, you may have a point there. "
Mr Flipper, that may just be the best argument against the Watchtowers "let Jehovah fix it" response I have ever heard. Just a wonderful comeback. I'm saving that one!
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flipper
DREW SAGAN- Thanks . I was trying to show my mom the difference between what an alleged " true God " would allow and hold accountability for as opposed to what the WT society would allow and hold elders accountable for. In other words- God's standards are higher than the WT societies standards. Hopefully she will think about that somewhat. Peace out, Mr.Flipper
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drew sagan
I agree. I also think it was excellent to separate the Watchtower organization, it's policies and practices from the "actions of Jehovah".
When the witnesses says "Jehovah will take care of it", what they mean to say is that in due time it will be worked out inside the organization, but it's a mystery as to how exactly that might happen. They also are trying to ignore the possiblity of failed organizational policies by pushing the burdon over to God. Of course, if they actually have to face the reality of the problem and the probability of it being resolved within the organiztaion they tend not to be so optimistic. It makes them look at the organization, and just the organization, without using God as an excuse for bad behavior.
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Farkel
flipper,
:Millions of $$$$$ in writing a book would help make the pain go away for sure
The only ones who make millions of $$$$$ writing books about the Watchtower Corporation is the Watchtower Corporation. No apostate has ever made any sizable amount of money writing a book about the Watchtower Corporation.
That includes the one who wrote the most famous and most read apostate book of all, namely, Ray Franz. He made a little money, but he made so little that he kept his stock of books in his garage and personally packed and shipped each one of them that was ordered.
The only way to make millions of dollars when writing about a puny little religion (that hardly anyone cares about) like Jehovah's Witnesses, is to start your OWN puny little religion and then con people into volunteering their time selling your books (or die at God's hand) and turn all the money over to you.
Chuck Russell learned this trick and so did all the other religious con artists since.
Farkel
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crapola
Hi Flipper,It was very encouraging to read about your experience with your mom. I only wish that I could talk to my mom like this. She is so deeply in that all she can see is my death at Arm. No reasoning wih her at all.
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flipper
DREW SAGAN- Very true what you say. Many times I've heard mind controlled witnesses make that exact statement you mentioned " Jehovah will take care of it " and yet it is NEVER clear just how or when He's going to do that. It's always in " His due time " . Which would never come if left up to the WT society. So yes by seperating God from the accountability of the WT society - perhaps some witnesses will see the difference.
FARKEL- I hear what you are saying. I'm certainly not one to start my own religion because I don't like conning people ; and I don't believe in religion ; so I'm content to be a janitor self employed to work on my first million, er thousands ! LOL! It is such a testimony to Ray Franz's great character that out of concern for other people finding out the truth that he boxed up and shipped his books from his garage. I have nothing but admiration for the man. Now the leaders of the WT society - my opinion of them has been pretty vocal on this board. And it's not good. You are right Russell, Rutherford, and other leaders of cults are just that " con artists ".
CRAPOLA- I hear what you are saying. I'm sorry your mom thinks you are dying at Armageddon. Just feel sorry for her because if she's elderly she'll probably die before you do. There is no such thing as Armageddon. My non-witness 24 year old son's JW mom is like your mom. She constantly has tried making my son feel guilty about leaving the witnesses at age 18 . Hang in there with it Crapola - just realize these people are mind controlled by a cult - like programmed robots with no real, authentic emotion . Maybe something will change your mom someday
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minimus
Your mom is a gem. You're all nice people.
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flipper
MINIMUS- Yeah , I think my mom's a gem as well. Thanks. I bet you came from good stock and heritage also. You have lots of good takes and show good character in your replies to people