WHAT PUNISHMENT SHOULD MENTALLY ILL CRIMINALS GET?

by Mary 28 Replies latest social current

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  Mary

  Last summer, a young man was on the bus to his home when a fellow passenger suddenly stabbed him and decapitated for absolutely no reason. His lawyers of course, are arguing that he is "not criminally responsible" for what he did because he's got a mental disorder. Forget the death penalty because we don't have that up here-----under Canadian law, if you're not held criminally responsible, that means you don't go to prison and this guy won't even have a criminal record. He'll go to a mental facility and could possibly get out some time down the road.

  You can read the story here: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090301/national/bus_beheading_trial_2

  My question is: what should happen to people who are deemed 'unfit to stand trial' or 'not criminally responsible' for their actions because of their mental health. Should they get the death penalty? Locked in a facility for the rest of their life? General population in prison?

  For myself, if this was my son who was killed by this nutbar, I would probably end up killing the guy myself and then spend the rest of my life in prison. I know this is not the politically correct viewpoint, but if someone is that unstable, violent and disturbed, then should we as a society, have to put up with their behaviour?

  There were a few assassination attempts on Queen Victoria when she was pregnant, by Edward Oxford. There were those who thought he should be executed for attempted murder, others thought he should be locked away in an insane asylum.

  So what's your view on what should happen to those who commit violent crimes but who are deemed mentally unstable?
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  oompa

  That is easy...they should have to go to meetings every night of the week at 4 different congregations!...and numerouls assemblies and conventions.....oompa
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  minimus

  OK, here's my thought. If you're soooo crazy that you behead someone----because you're insane, you're never going to get better, really. I don't like paying for incarcerating killers. Give them the death penalty and take care of those justifiably in need. Since Canada doesn't see it my way, I suggest drugging the killer so that he can longer hurt anyone and leave him to study the ceiling.
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  rebel8

  In some cases an illness causes a person to have zero judgment, insight, and impulse control. When coupled by no treatment and psychosis with violent urges, this is deadly. IMHO, that combo is rare.

  Things to consider....

  • A lot of sociopaths pretend to have an organic (brain) disorder (also called Axis I mental disorder). They are violent scumbags w/o consciences bright enough to know how to escape consequences for their actions. Happens all the time. When I worked inpatient psych, I'd say maybe 20% of my patients fell into this category.
  • It is not the fault of the patient that they have a mental condition. Recovery, however, is their responsibility. They know they have this condition that could be dangerous to others--they have the ethical obligation to seek and complete necessary treatment and follow-up care.
  • Psychotic people can travel back and forth from lucidity. I had such a patient confess brutal crimes to me once. He knew what he did and acknowledged he had avoided treatment, which he understood as essential to avoid violent behavior.
  • Mental illness does not equal inability to comprehend the morality and consequences of one's actions. [Perp described above went to great lengths to cover his crimes because he knew it was wrong.]
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  Mary

  That's what I think rebel.....Alot of sociopaths pretend to be crazier than what they are in order to avoid the death penalty. So we pay and pay and pay and pay to keep them in prison for years or decades because god forbid anyone actually be held accountable for their actions. I was watching that movie Changeling, with Angelina Jolie the other night. It was a true story of this sick bastard who went around nabbing little kids off the streets, taking them back to his ranch, raping them and then literally chopping them up with an axe. When they finally caught the bastard, he was eventually hanged, even though he looked like he was completely insane. Today, you'd most likely have a bunch of bleeding hearts demonstrating out front holding up signs with "John 3:16" on them.
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  sammielee24

  You can get life in prison in Canada - that's what he should be given. If you are a danger to society, even in this capacity, then you should be in prison for life if that is the maximum penalty. If the maximum penalty is death, then he should receive the maximum - he sawed off a guys head for krissakes - an act of extreme violence.

  Cases are different and levels of danger are different - in this case, it was an extreme act of violence and rage. Remove the mental illness label and you get a murderer..circular reasoning - are all murders mentally ill and thus do we set the same standards for all of them. sammieswife.
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  BabaYaga

  Food for thought and "bleeding heart" accusations aside: for those of you who don't want to pay for the food and board of a psychopath for the rest of his life, hear this: Apparently, it costs more to execute him. Seriously. I heard several years ago that with all of the court costs and appeals, etc. to actually go through with a legal execution, it costs far more than several years of three meals a day, including medical, etc.

  So, apparently... costs alone aren't going to win this argument. I haven't Googled this recently, so have at it.

  Another theory that I have read is that it is much, much more difficult to get released from a mental facility than a public corrections facility, but the truth to that is mighty subjective and anybody's guess.
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  Finally-Free

  There are many, many, many people who have mental illnesses, yet somehow manage to get through life without decapitating people. I say if someone is that ill, put him out of his misery and ours too.

  W
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  sammielee24

  However Baba....we need to look at each situation on it's own.

  In this case, a whole bus load of people saw the guy attack this person and go nuts. They tried to stop him and they couldn't. He kept sawing the guys head off and then held it up at the window so everyone could see.

  In a case where there are 30 eye witnesses all with the same story, where you are caught holding a head that you removed from someone, you are full of blood - where there is no way that you are innocent of that murder - there is absolute proof - we need to question why there are so many appeals and so many years between the time of the murder and the sentencing. In cases like this - he is guilty. The only appeal should be to the family of the kid he murdered - an appeal from him to spare his life. That would take about a month max to get through. Then sentencing. That would reduce the cost considerably and if the death penalty were the outcome, it would be another month to the punishment. The cost is in the containment and lawyer for the next 20 years and in his living expenses - reduce the first and you eliminate the rest.

  In cases like Dahmer who really wanted to die and admitted his guilt, why do we insist keeping them alive? sammieswife.
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  rebel8

  Right.

  An alcoholic is responsible for his/her recovery, and in the meantime, to take steps necessary to not get behind the wheel drunk and kill others...even though alcohol addiction severely harms the brain and impairs judgment, we expect him/or her to not kill us. We insist upon it.

  Same thing with mental illness.....