If You believe that Jesus is God.... (page 2)

Decided

"My journey thus far has brought me in believing there are greater, smarter and more intelligent being(s) than us humans in the universe – God or Gods as you may refer to it. What exactly that entails/details regarding human creation/life/purpose, I am still researching and pondering…BUT…

…I live my life and enjoy it, looking to help and assist others when I can in real practical ways. I have also accepted the notion that I may never have all the answers I need or want. Interpret that as you will, for whatever there is – if anything that we can possibly relate to on a human or human-like conscious plane - after this life may make what we have now the most important aspect of “living” or a very insignificant part of our everlasting “life” journey."

I agree with this. We just don't know what life is about, it could be far beyond what we can imagine or nothing.

Ken P.

Satanus

It's true that the wt actually lies about the real trinity definition. While leaving, i confronted a jw who did this in his public talk. Basically, they say that the catholic defintion is three gods in one god. It simply isn't like that. The catholic describes the trinity as three PERSONS in ONE god. Start off on level ground in your research.

S

IP_SEC

Hello,

You axed the wrong question. xians dont believe that Jesus was the father. The believe he is god the son.

To xians the trinity is kinda like Q continuum from STtNG. Q is Q but all the Q are also Q.

Now here is something. God is God right? The father is God, the son is God, the HS is God... Satan is a god... the angels are gods. Naw I know you dont call them gods, but thats just cause you like to think of xianOJoodism as monotheistic. They all are gods strictly speaking, tho demigods they may be. That being the case, whycomes its so hard to imagine the trinity?

Chalam

Hi lurk3r,

Here are some verses regarding the Diety of Christ and the Trinity. I think they speak for themselves.

Isaiah 9:6 (New International Version)

6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [a] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 14:16-18 (New International Version)

16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be [ a ] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Philippians 2:5-7 (New International Version)

5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature [a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature [b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

Matthew 1:23 (New International Version)

23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" [a] —which means, "God with us."

All the best,

Stephen

lurk3r

thank you all...I will do some reading and some listening (thanks wt)

How does one explain John 1:18 then? Seeing jesus isnt like seeing god?

lurk3r

Chalam

Hi lurk3r,

John 1:18 (New International Version)

18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

An interesting topic all round but here is the answer to your question

Colossians 1:15 (New International Version)

The Supremacy of Christ

15 He is the image of the invisible God

Hebrews 1:3 (New International Version)

3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being

And again

John 14:8-9 (New International Version)

8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Also

John 10:30 (New International Version)

30 I and the Father are one.

Hope that helps?

All the best,

Stephen

parakeet

"Why are there no commonly agree'd upon paintings or carved statues of Jesus himself?"

Because only government leaders get their mugs stamped into coins. Back then it would have been the Caesars portrayed on coins.

The same tradition still rules today -- only presidents appear on coins and paper money (except for Franklin, but he was pretty high up there, too).

To the Romans, Jesus (if he existed at all) was a minor annoyance in one of their occupied provinces. He did nothing that would have merited a hallowed image on Roman money.

quietlyleaving

The WTS is a classic example of imposing unity on texts with hindsight. Lots of religions do this and lots don't. You then have to follow their rules to make your beliefs consistent or you can strive for internal consistency. This also has its dangers cos you could end up believing in conspiracy theories for example.

The best thing, as others have suggested, is to use your own thinking and come to your own conclusions as the bible can be used to support many different positions with hindsight. I think for emotional health it is important to engage and develop your spiritual/imaginative/divine side (depending on whether you are a believer or an atheist or an agnostic etc)

Keep asking those questions

edit - however you look on it though John 1:18 is a pretty powerful scripture

quietlyleaving

Furthermore (I've really got going now) John 1:18 has a lot of meaning imo

from the NWT

"No man has seen God at any time: the only begotten god who is in the bosom (position) with the father is the one that has explained him"

Jesus here seems to be coupling experience with conceptualization. The experience of being "in the bosom (position)" with the father, to me, is a very powerful spiritual experience.

Whereas when Jesus talks about explainining God it looks like he is attempting to conceptualize the infinte in finite terms.

It could also be that Jesus was being ironic and really saying that it is impossible to explain the divine in material terms therefore the meaning should remain individual and fluid and follow your own experience of God which should remain infinite.

Sarah Smiles

Here are some scriptures I found.

NWTColossians 2: 19 because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him,

KG 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Again

NWTColossians 2:9 because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.

NIV 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

And My favorite! Where the Alimighty God speaks of Jesus as God!

NWT 8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.

But I think the WTBTS says that God is not referring to Christ but to himself!

but still Jesus is made see Hebrews 1:4

If You believe that Jesus is God....