leaving wt... sorry mate....but I'm not biting........................let's agree to disagree
Truthers: Please Provide Commentary
by leavingwt 31 Replies latest social current
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leavingwt
leaving wt...sorry mate....but
I'm not biting........................let's agree to disagree
OK.
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ninja
cheers mate....I'm fed up arguing with folk....at least until tomorrow......he he
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Big Tex
I would like to see what would happen if all the above posters were tortured for how many was it, seven years?
I, for one, am an absolute wimp. To quote Daffy Duck: "I don't like pain. It hurts too much."
I think they would admit that they were members of the Russian UFO Invaders after years of torture, to be continued under Obama despite his original promise of yes we can stop torturing. Oh nooooo, the above commenters don't care that America is torturing people what gets under their skin is the fact that anybody would believe that torture had anything to do with the confessions, why that person should be tortured for thinking that.
I care a great deal that the Bush administration has sanctioned torture. This is in violation of the Geneva Convention, as well as a few other treatires that I cannot recall. It's a slippery slope when we start to sanction evil to fight evil. I said so on this board years ago, as well as my opposition to the Iraq war.
However, it is a quantum leap to put the sadistic, nihilistic idiots the Bush adminsitration has trotted out for the past few years into the position of torture for the sake of covering up a bombing on 9/11.
Is it possible? Yeah, sure. But I was born in Missouri. Evidence please?
Chris
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read good books
"However, it is a quantum leap to put the sadistic, nihilistic idiots the Bush adminsitration has trotted out for the past few years into the position of torture for the sake of covering up a bombing on 9/11. "
Well I was about to post on Cheney but somebody may have beat me to it, if I criticize Obama for continuing tortue there are Democrats who jump on me with both feet, but when I criticize Bush or Cheney I get no support from them either. It's kind of like these conspiricy theories Chris, neither one of us or Ninja really like to argue it, but we kind have seen it as our job to defend our beliefs. 9/11conspiracy proof you want, well I am going to bed, maybe tommorrow.
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Big Tex
I hear you RGB. I'm no fan of Cheney or Bush. One is an overgrown frat boy and the other has subverted the Constitution in ways we probably won't find out for years.
You know my biggest problem with 9/11 conspiracy? It doesn't make logical sense. With JFK, RFK or MLK, there was a pretty good reason to believe why conspirators had a problem with them and wanted them dead. Here, not so much. And, unlike with those murders, we've got people who have not only confessed, but have boasted about it. We've got very clear video of planes flying into the buildings.
Just from the get-go, the premise itself doesn't make sense. Why would the U.S. government want to destroy the World Trade Center and damage the Pentagon? The logistics of the premise also do not make sense. With the 60's assasinations, the premise was that it could be blamed on an individual instead of the real killer(s). Here, with 9/11, the scale is massive. It would need to involve hundreds, if not thousands of conspirators. Finally it's been nearly 8 years, and no one has come forward, no Deep Throat informant has whispered about 'them'.
Like I say, the whole story just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The more I've dug into the hypothesis, the less I've found. At least with JFK, the more I dug the more questions I had, not so here.
Chris
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read good books
"Why would the U.S. government want to destroy the World Trade Center and damage the Pentagon? The logistics of the premise also do not make sense. With the 60's assasinations, the premise was that it could be blamed on an individual instead of the real killer"-Chris
You have asked the million dollar conspiracy question, a very, very hard question, everybody else argues about how it happened. I would like to take several stabs at this question it's again late for me and I will just say a few things now. The Gulf of Tonkin incident started the VietNam War. We believed we were attacked, years later it was admitted that LBJ lied we were not attacked there.. Others knew he lied but kept silent. 58000 US soldiers died in Viet Nam. Ask yourself why would the Governemt do that?. What kind of people do that? Not people like us.
That just illustrates that Presidents, Dictators and Ceasers have been caught doing things like that, but specifically is it possible and why on the scale of the Trade Towers and Pentagon though? I have read reports that say we were already getting ready to go to War in Afghanistan before 911. But what would it take to enrage the American people and the World to justify a much broader War. and a continuation of the Gulf War with Saddam Hussien in Iraq, and beyond, perhaps a "hundred years of war" or even "endless war". I am trying to answer your question but it's also about much more than justification for those Wars , about things that are even bigger, I wish somebody would take over this question, but probably no one will, I won't even say I can fully answer it..
Well that's a start. But it's late and I am tired and going to bed. I hope to pick up on this question some time later but it takes a very lengthy answer maybe a book to offer up enough proof to make sense out of it.
"J. Edgar Hoover famously said: “The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.”
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ninja
sorry again for the triplicate vids....don't know why that is happening
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Big Tex
You have asked the million dollar conspiracy question, a very, very hard question, everybody else argues about how it happened. I would like to take several stabs at this question it's again late for me and I will just say a few things now. The Gulf of Tonkin incident started the VietNam War. We believed we were attacked, years later it was admitted that LBJ lied we were not attacked there.. Others knew he lied but kept silent. 58000 US soldiers died in Viet Nam. Ask yourself why would the Governemt do that?. What kind of people do that? Not people like us.
Actually I don't have any problem believing Presidents lie. Happens in every administration. LBJ had such a problem with lying that his administration had a "credibility gap", or so it was called at the time and this played a major factor in to why the Tet Offensive was so damaging to him, even though the U.S. scored an overwhelming victory on the battlefield.
But, again, LBJ's lies were known at the time, or shortly thereafter. Bush's lies were about Iraq, not Afghanistan.
W hat just illustrates that Presidents, Dictators and Ceasers have been caught doing things like that, but specifically is it possible and why on the scale of the Trade Towers and Pentagon though? I have read reports that say we were already getting ready to go to War in Afghanistan before 911. But what would it take to enrage the American people and the World to justify a much broader War. and a continuation of the Gulf War with Saddam Hussien in Iraq, and beyond, perhaps a "hundred years of war" or even "endless war".
Well the Bush administration clearly had an agenda to attack Iraq, which didn't happen for something like 18 months. Pre-2001, the Taliban was not considered a threat, and although al-Qaeda was, it was considered to be a lower level threat than say Russia or China. I don't remember much talk about Afghanistan back then, but obviously I wasn't involved in intelligence. There might very well have been plans to attack Afghanistan, but I remember more talk about Hussein than the Taliban.
Bush didn't start to beat the war drums until late 2002 and early 2003, for Iraq.
I hear what you're saying, and yes it's possible (although evidence would necessary for belief). I can suspend disbelief momentarily to agree with you it is possible the government engineered 9/11 as a precursor to war. But then we quickly come that evidence problem. For me to start to buy into your hypothesis, I'd have to ask why bother with planes? After the 1993 bombing, the precedent was set, so there would be no need to obfuscate it with robot planes (or whatever the story is). Just blow up the damn buildings. Additionally there was no need to involve a Pentagon attack, nor was there any need to destroy United 93. This is where the story breaks down and becomes illogical.
If the government wanted to engineer endless war in the Middle East, it makes much more sense to have a focused attack on one target, WTC, with explosives that no one would see and could be covered up in the wreakage cleanup.
And how did the government get the cooperation of al-Qaeda to take credit for the attack? What does al-Qaeda get? If they were in on the conspiracy, they would have come forward by now if for no other reason than to embarass Bush. They want the U.S. destroyed, not engaged in an endless war in Iraq and Afghanistan. And how did the government, then under Bill Clinton, knowingly allow 20 Arabs into the country for flight training? Since the attack came in 2001, this would demand coordination between two administrations, two political parties and two diametrically opposite viewpoints by the way. I see no reason why the Clinton administration would want this to happen, or would want an endless war, violatio of the Constitution, treaties, etc. by torturing prisoners, etc. etc.
I could go on, but this is what I mean about the more you dig into the story, the less the story makes logical sense and the more it begins to break down.