Belief in the resurrection trivializes death

by jabberwock 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jabberwock
    jabberwock

    Recently, A@G started a thread called "A belief in an afterlife is the most dangerous of all beliefs"

    I have been thinking about the necessary consequences of a belief in the afterlife, particularly a belief in the resurrection as envisioned by Jehovah's Witnesses. I came to some of the conclusions that A@G did and this post was originally meant to be a response on that thread, but I went off topic a bit and I didn't want to spoil the point Lance was trying to make.

    Here it goes:

    One especially pernicious aspect of this belief is that it trivializes death as you commented on. This of course gives God, however you like to spell his name, a free pass whenever he orders the extermination of entire ethnic groups, with the exception of a virgin who happens to catch the attention of an Israelite soldier as he is righteously murdering her father, mother, brothers, and any non-virginal sisters.

    When discussing the imminent destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah with Abraham, God expounds on the generous nature of his justice by indicating that he would spare all of Sodom if only ten righteous men were to be found among its inhabitants. The principle here seems to be that the innocent are never to be destroyed along with the guilty (they may have to lose decades of their life aimlessly wandering around a wilderness though).

    Were the infants and toddlers who drowned in the Flood deserving of the death dealt to them at the hands of God? I once heard a speaker raise this question and then answer it with another question: "Well, when you're getting rid of the cockroaches in your house do you just kill the adult cockroaches?"

    And what of the children of the Midianites and the Amalekites, the firstborns of the Egyptians, and David and Bath-sheba's first son? This is to say nothing of the many close calls (Moses' uncircumcised son), cases of guilt by association or community responsibility (36 men who died in the failed attack on Ai), and instances where the punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime (children who make fun of Elisha).

    My belated point is that if you believe that such ones are going to be brought back to life, in a paradise no less, it is much easier to excuse the acts of God that cut their lives short to begin with. Since God has made provisions for sinful people, all of whom are deservingly condemned to death already, to live forever on earth, so we have no right and no reason to ask why he subjects innocent people to horrific deaths.

    Thus, death, even torturous ones, can be trivialized by the belief in an afterlife.

    jabberwock

  • alanv
    alanv

    It's a good point. Some of the things we read in the bible seem absolutely horrendous, but then when you say to yourself ' O well these people will be resurrected to either heaven or earth', somehow that makes it ok. Of course it is not ok and it is not just witnesses that think this way, it's also true in many other religions. With the witnesses it has the effect of stopping them trying to improve life for themselves or their fellow humans.They are taught to help people only spiritually which means it does not matter what happens now it is after death that is important. A very sick and dangerous outlook on life.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi jabberwock,

    I am afraid I totally disagree. I believe the bible and I value life ore than ever. Read this chapter and see if resurrection and the second death seems trivial Revelation 20

    The day one dies is far more significant than the day one is born. The day of our birth we know but as for death, no-one knows the day or the hour.

    Hebrews 9:27 (New International Version)

    27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Jabber...

    Very deep thoughts and astute questions.

    I shall look forward to reading more of your posts.

    Welcome to the board.

    And yes, I think you are very correct in your observations.

    cameo-d

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Hi jabberwock,

    Welome to the forum.

    You are correct.

    Unfortunately, this is not the sole domain of Bible based religions. Mankind has invented a variety of beliefs that accomplish the same thing. It doesn't even require God.

    Cheers

    Chris

  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    I am with you, chalam. But the number one problem which I see - or hear - is whn the death of an unbelieving parent or spouse or child is commented on with the standardized phrase that "Oh, that is bad - but he/she will come back in the resurrection soon, and man! ain't he lucky, as he won't have to endure any more of all these problems which we are stuck with, and which will grow only worse in the few remaining years!"

    My standardized response to that is that "Why should this unbelieving person, who has lived close together with a believing person for many years, without having embraced Christian faith - why should he be given a resurrection?" And that triggers many different responses.

    The "he'll come back soon" is no comfort in MY eyes, as it is too mechanistic.

    I've lived in the uttermost fear of death and dying for half a century, and it just ain't getting any easier as years go by. On the contrary. Trying to see and touch dead loved ones, sitting close to the coffins - it does ease the pain and fear, but only in respect to that person, not in respect to my own fear, as my fear is that of non-existance, of not existing any more - and that thought scares the &%ยค out of me, my mind just can't imagine it.

  • thomas15
    thomas15

    I'm with Chalam on this one. After my mother died in 1989, we received a letter from a young JW which basically stated that we could probably see Mom again by what I guess joining their free Bible study. Of course the obvious question is that the writer of the letter didn't know if Mom was a JW and I know she was not so what could be a reasonable arguement to support our being reunited later since Mom was never a JW?

    Also, if the soul ceases to exist after death with no eternal consiquesces for rejecting God in this life as the society teaches, then why is that such a bad thing?

    On the other hand, the Bible as I understand it teaches that God, the maker and sustainer of all things, became a man, the man Jesus and he humbled himself at the cross to pay the price for my disobedience and my lack of real faith in the only real God. So I may not like the fact that God punishes sin but how do I express that dissatisfaction of a God, who loves me so much that he gave me a solution to my sin problem that is available only by simply believeing in the savior, nothing else is required? It sounds too good to be true but is is. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." Speaking for myself, this is all I need to know.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Good points jabberwock.

    However... :)

    Practically none of the killing (human or divine, real or fictitious) in the OT presupposes belief in the resurrection nor in a positive, retributive, notion of afterlife since those ideas mostly developed in Judaism after those texts were written.

    The older notions of the underworld (she'ol) were only comforting in a negative, or passive way. It could mean (cf. Job 3) relief to the oppressed and humiliation to the oppressors. Reunion with the fathers. Rest and peace. Those are the most natural, intuitive representations of death when you think of it. Even the so-called "materialists" who understand death as sheer cessation of life will resort to the same metaphors basically.

    I do agree that beliefs in a positive notion of afterlife can have perverse side-effects (memories of old JWs fancying about everlasting life in Paradise and not caring a bit about the future of their df'd children and grandchildren come to mind) but it seems to me that they actually weigh little against the reality of death. And death makes a great job at trivialising itself and everything else.

  • jabberwock
    jabberwock

    I should probably make a few clarifications based on some of the responses.

    My point was that when considering biblical accounts where God deals death to humans in a way that seems unjust we must ask ourselves: Why would a just God do such a thing? This question deserves and demands an answer, but I think that many, particularly Jehovah's Witnesses, prefer to sidestep it by instead focusing on the hope they believe these ones have for a resurrection to a paradise earth where they will live forever in perfection. Certainly, this is a nice consolation prize, but it does not answer the question. I believe that such reasoning trivializes death as it tries to append a happy ending to accounts that would otherwise confuse and disturb us.

    Chalam, I was not trying to prove that the Bible itself trivializes death, but rather that an interpretation of the Bible that whitewashes some of the bloodier stories can. I agree that death, especially the "second death", is considered to be a very serious thing in the Bible even if we disagree with or don't understand the manner in which it is dealt. How do you understand some of the accounts that I mentioned in my original post?

    TheOldHippie, it used to, and still does, drive me crazy when I hear someone say, "Well, at least now he's certain to get a resurrection." Because of Romans 6:23 many, if not most, Witnesses believe that dying automatically entitles you to a resurrection as long as you steered clear of grieving the Holy Spirit. Those who get such a resurrection still have to prove themselves after Christ's millennial reign, so I don't see how dying does anything, but delay things for awhile. There aren't supposed to be any free rides on the resurrection train.

    Narkissos, you make an excellent point. Of course, no discussion of the afterlife in the Hebrew Bible amongst Witnesses (or former Witnesses) can be complete without at least one obligatory mention of the proper way to translate the word ne'phesh. Still, my point was more about how the Bible is interpreted rather than the beliefs it was invested with.

    Thanks for the great replies, keep them coming!

    jabberwock

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    Why would a just God do such a thing? This question deserves and demands an answer

    I have come to the conclusion that all religious writings are man's thoughts about God, not God's thoughts about man.

    Why should I be influenced by the belief system of a group of goat herders from a foreign country, who are not even my ancestors?

    "Why would a just God do such a thing?", he wouldn't. It is just the fireside tales of ancient cultures that have no relevence today.

    Cheers

    Chris

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