The Great Crowd are NOT Jehovah Witnesses ? (page 2)

TheOldHippie

If this is new to you, after 60 years, then the question to ask must be, where have you been for these 60 years? That there during Rutherford's days was the understanding that only the anointed ones were "JW" whereas the GC or OS were the Jonadabs, is old news, is one of the first things I read for myself after becoming a JW. It's just a technicality that was done away with long time ago, so man! why the fuzz?

Chalam

Hi,

I has never much pondered who the great cloud of witnesses is that Paul mentions as the term occurs only once.

Hebrews 12 (New International Version)

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses

However, I have just had a read and it is clear who they are of course, all the people of faith mentioned in Hebrews 11, Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham etc.

In fact, this great cloud includes anyone who had faith and left the earth. After all, we are all justified by faith as Abraham was as Paul wrote here Romans 4

I brought up this verse with my JW friend once.

Hebrews 11:4 (New International Version)

4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

To me, this verse speaks of the dead being 100% conscious in their spirit and able to speak etc. Just like Paul says here

2 Corinthians 5:8 (New King James Version)

8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Obviously, my friend was having none of it with his WT indoctrination and explained that Abel was dead, conscious of nothing but his "testimony" continued to speak, not his spirit. I agreed to differ and left it at that.

However, now I think of it, Enoch is in the list! We know he didn't die but God took him home.

Hebrews 11:5 (New International Version)

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

So it looks like I need to ask my JW friend about the list and Enoch now!

So what can we say about the cloud of witnesses. Well for sure, pretty much most on the forum know they aren't JWs!

Here is what they are from Romans 4

16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

So anyone who has faith in God (OT) or believe God raised Jesus from the dead in His body (NT) is joins the crowd upon their death.

All the best,

Stephen

AnnOMaly

Hi Nick! Sacolton's put together a good synopsis.

Tip: if you are signed in to amazon, you can 'look inside' Anthony Wills' (formerly aka 'Timothy White') "A People For His Name". You'll get some further insights p. 194-197 (search key word 'Solutions' to start you off, then 'nervousness' to finish the section) - very well put together and well-referenced. The whole book's a must-have, by the way.

passwordprotected

@ sacolton - probably a Cohiba.

Mickey mouse

I know so little about Jehovah's Witnesses *hangs head in shame*.

Nick!

You are perfectly right OldHippie, I really don’t know where I have been for 60 odd years.

However, for sure I now know where I was NOT.

I was not in God’s Organization!

At the end of the day, it is only a question of words play … this is what the WT has been doing all the time.

As you say … why the fuzz …..

Nick!

JimmyPage

Holy crap this is a great thread. Thanks for revealing what it really means to be a JW, Sacolton. And remember- the Greek scriptures were only written for the anointed- and there are only 144,000 of them! Maybe someday I can hear those special voices in my head. But I have to get off private reproof first.

Narkissos

I vaguely remember that the extension of the JW label to the "other sheep" was explicitly stated at some point (did I read that long ago in the book JWs in Divine Purpose, the prototype of the Proclaimers book, which is not in the CD-Rom? Or maybe my memory is wrong). In literature from 1950 onward there appears to be no distinction whatsoever so it must have happened earlier if it ever did.

Off-topic, while browsing the literature I noticed that JWs gained their capital "W" in 1976 and then it was used retroactively except in formal quotations...

Nick!

Thank for the tip AnnOMaly!

Guess I will acquire the book which I have never read before.

In the meantime, any chance you scan contents of pages p. 194-197 and post it here?

Thanks.

Nick!

space cow boy

And nobody read Blues Brothers Post?

The Great Crowd are NOT Jehovah Witnesses ?

Hebrews 12 (New International Version)

Hebrews 11:4 (New International Version)

2 Corinthians 5:8 (New King James Version)

Hebrews 11:5 (New International Version)

Share this