Sales of Bethel premises and transfer of millions to Brooklyn ?

by Nick! 39 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Nick!

  Sales of Bethel premises and transfer of millions to Brooklyn ?

  Just heard a very surprising and unbelievable news which I want to share with you and ask whoever has the right connections higher up in the Borg, if this kind of news can be double checked for reliability.

  The source of the information is believed to be reliable as it seems to be intimately related to some officials of the branch. The information is related to one of the European Union branches.

  According to the information, 150 bethelites will be terminated in the next few weeks and the branch functions transferred to the German branch in Selters.

  The branch has very large, historical and luxurious properties which have been sold, according to the allegations, to a highly rated university and the funds transferred to the Head Quarter of the WT in the US.

  I suspect that if this is true, it would apply to more than just ONE European Branch.
  Many international businesses in Europe have centralized their operation in the European Union to cut costs and run the business from one single location, with limited local representation required for the language and other local requirements.
  If the WT would follow this approach, it would not be impossible to see a concentration of the European activity from one single maxi branch.
  All the money made out of the sale of the other branches would then be flowing back into the Head Quarters safes!

  Of course this is only a speculation.

  If we could confirm the rumor about the first branch we know about, then we could speculate that the same approach could be adopted for more branches.

  Thanks.

  Nick!
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  Mickey mouse

  Which branch? France?
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  daniel-p

  This story should not be posted under "scandals." What's scandalous about Watchtower selling properties and consolidating operations? It's been doing this in different regions for decades. It's doing this right now in the US. There's nothing scandalous about it: at best its mildly intriguing. And of course funds from sold properties is going to WT headquarters. Did you think they would sprinkle the money out on the street?
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Nick!,

  It wouldn't surprise me if they did more selling and downsizing of the branches, including larger European countries. Many of them were bleeding money back when the money was flowing in generously from wealthier countries. Watchtower is, after all, just another multi-national corporation needing to cut costs.

  Unless you know which country to watch, this will be a wait-and-see situation. Either we'll hear from ex-dubs in another country, such as Germany, or the JWs will mention it themselves with their own positive spin... "Aren't we joyful that Jehovah has directed the FDS to sell this property in order to finance more printing in Africa? [cue applause]"

  As far as money going back to Brooklyn, since it is a multi-national corporation, the money will likely be split among several branches first, particularly the one that will take over supervision of the region.

  B the X
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  FuzzyPaul

  Since the 1980's or so I heard that the Watchtower bought properies in Brooklynn through corporations that were in the personal name of some "Brother" I'll call X. I was told Brother X donated his good conscience to the cause of taking donations given to a non-profit 501C3 and purchased real estate in his personal name. The reason given for this was so that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc could then pay property tax to stop the New Yorkers from complaining about all the free services they were receiving.

  The letters asking for donations for buying those properies went through the United States Postal Service and that sounds like possible MAIL FRAUD.

  The recent or near future sales receipts of those properies in Brooklynn would easily be received as belonging to Brother X - Since there are few who would remember those details and few knew and very few people who knew would dare argue and complain - since disfellowshipping is quaranteed and that means eternal destruction, according to the Watchtower - Brother X could then possibly divide the spoils with his other conspirators and walk easy street with the loot.

  That scenario is felony FRAUD. With multiple counts. And could fall into the RICCO act's provisions for prosecuting a corrupt organization. Then the authorities would be de-501C3-ing the false-faced Watchtower and charge them for decades of unpaid taxes of all types.

  The FBI should look into it. It seems that there is a fraud. The WT is a fraudulent religion.

  • They run no charities. Feed no starving people. They house no orphans.
  • They took donations for Katrina and put the money into their general fund and did not do any relief work on record.
  • They use free labor where numerous individuals have worked double shifts in the printery 16 hour days plus meetings and family breakfast time leading to serious sleep deprivation.
  • The Watchtower took donations to buy property for individuals to own in their names.
  • The WT charged for literature based on a fee schedule that was presented as a comparision list of what other religious publications cost and that is distributed on a "donation basis". The "donation basis" distribution prevents sales taxes from needing to be collected.
  • The Watchtower collects Property Insurance Premiums from congregations but ask or require the Congregation to pay for any losses.
  • The Watchtower makes mortgages and charges interest to build Kingdom Halls without being a Bank and on property they then hold the Title to even after its paid for.

  Does any one think for a minute that any of that sounds honest? Where is the F.B.I. and when could they look into this?

  I'm out and staying clear of the falling parts.

  Paul
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  apocryphal22

  FuzzyPaul

  I have some interest in this topic but it's hard to find information.

  As for "Brother X", he turned those properties over to the Society a while back. The purpose of Co-Hi was to circumvent any BHA legal opposition. The vast majority of the money came from him. This was at most devious, but not illegal.

  Except for having no charities, the other items you list could equally apply to most any other tax exempt organization.

  I would be interested in any money flowing out of the WTS Corps in the past 10 years if you have any information.
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  TheOldHippie

  Nothing strange about any of these things. I remember some properties in Brooklyn were also bought in the names of individuals, because there were restrictions on how many properties one single corporation could own, and therefore the ownership was spread out. Downsizing in Europe is no scandal, it is just adjusting to the economic realities.
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  Nick!

  Hi Billy,

  The country is Italy, at least the first I am hearing about.

  Of course, I can see the reaction of the bros at the announcement:
  Everything comes from Jehovah and is a blessing for his people!
  The appropriate scripture will be read in support of their decision, and, as you say, everyone will applaud.

  I read the Charter of the Italian branch, and it says, as for any other branch I suspect, in the event of winding-up of the legal entity, the balance sheet assets are transferred to the Watch Tower of Pennsylvania.

  If the rumor is true, then I would assume that they would leave behind the “Service Department” to deal with the communication in local language with the country congregations, the traveling overseers and assemblies programs.
  This service does not require many resources and a few men in a small office could cope with the job without a large support staff.

  I also hear ( but this is not a rumor ! ) that they have closed down AND SOLD two assembly halls (one in the south and one in the center of the country) which were owned by the branch, of course!
  Now the bros will have to travel long distances to go to halls which they will have to rent for the events, after having contributed with their funds and hard work in building the halls years ago.

  It all sounds like the big business the society has really been in, apart from the printing ventures, is exploiting the members both, with their financial contributions first, to buy the basic land or existing construction, and then the free labor to build, decorate and renovate their properties.
  As soon as the value is multiplied by 20 or so, and that the market is favorable, they sell the property and start all over again somewhere else.

  As the cycle takes about 20 years or so, the original contributors and volunteers having left the organization, died or be too old to be used by the multi-national organization, they just sell the property, make a big deal, tax free, and start the cycle again with … fresh labor and fresh donors who are not frustrated (yet!) to see their original contribution and efforts disappear in the air (read WTBS safe!), as they are now part of the “new generation” of naïf dubs!

  Great money!

  Nick!
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  Nick!

  Daniel,

  100% agree with you on both, where not to post this story and that it is normal that profit from property sales ends up at WT headquarters.

  As it is a Watch Tower Society move, looking at the different sections of the forum, I thought that the “Watch Tower Society” section would be the most appropriate one.
  But under this section the only other choices I had are:
  - research
  - Beliefs
  - Child Abuse
  - Medicine, and of course

  As the subject is none of the above … I was left with … scandals

  After all, for the idiots (like me in the past) who have contributed financially and dedicated time to WT construction work, to know that at the end of the day it is just about profit for the WT, it is a scandal!

  But maybe you meant, I should have posted it under “Friends”!
  Strange section label where to dump what does not fit into any other section!

  On the other subject, where should the money go, even I can understand that you do not expect to see it sprinkle out on the street!

  What is dishonest about it is that you contribute for ONE SPECIFIC objective (e.g. building an assembly hall, or a branch premises but see the money going out to different targets than the one you originally thought you were contributing for.

  For example, the bros who have contributed to the construction of the two assembly halls in Italy, in both money and labor, now see that the result of their effort has evaporated, the money has been cashed by the society, and they have to go back to square one, renting halls for their assemblies.

  If this is normal to many people, it is absolutely not “business as usual” for me anymore!
  It is maybe “business as usual” for the dubs!
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  TheOldHippie

  Both in Sweden and in Denmark, convention halls and hotels have been sold. These are then rented from the new owners. Nothing strange, as it quite simply was too expensive to have halls which were not used THAT frequently.