... if every true story of what Jesus really did were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
What Really Happened During Christ's Passover
by snowbird 30 Replies latest watchtower bible
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TD
I looked and didn't see anything specific. It's a tough one for anybody dead set on the notion that Jesus died on the same date the lamb was slaughtered to explain.
If the next daylight period after passover --"the morrow after Passover" really is the 15th, the passover could only have been celebrated the previous evening when the daylight period of the 14th has passed and sun had set.
This is technically the point when the 15th begins which makes the traditional timeline presented by JW's and kindred groups 24 hours too early. The morning of the 15th is Thursday morning in the timeline above
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garybuss
What Really Happened During Christ's Passover
There was talk about eating the flesh of a man . . . -
TD
Interesting link, Narkissos
I wonder if this helps or hurts the notion that the Passover, arrest, trial and passion all occur within a 24 hour period on the 14th?
It seems like it hurts more it than helps because it wastes about 12 hours that are desparately needed for the plausibility of that idea.
IOW Let's say the date of the 14th begins with the 14th sunrise of the month instead of 12 hours previously on the evening of the 13th. The lamb is slaughtered in the afternoon/evening, passover is observed, and the arrest and trial happen later that night. Sunrise comes and the 15th day of the month begins.
This won't work for JW's and others --they need the daylight period that follows passover to still be the 14th so that Jesus actually dies on the 14th. They need the extra 12 hours that starting the calendar date in the evening gives them.
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Narkissos
TD
If we want to go historical about it we are facing a dead end anyway, no matter what day reckoning we assume (sundown to sundown or sunrise to sunrise): because if we read the Gospel stories at face value (and, after all, this is just what the reader/hearer of each Gospel was expected to do) Jesus dies on a Friday in all four Gospels (the day before the sabbath), but he dies after the Passover meal (which he shares with his disciples) in the Synoptics and before the Passover meal (about the time when the lambs were slaughtered) in John. Both stories are possible of course -- just not the same year.
If the day reckoning was such an important issue, and assuming that it could be implicit to a Jewish audience (this is hardly the case, as the above article shows), it would need to be made explicit to a Gentile audience. This is not the case, and each Passion story (separately, as it was originally intended) is perfectly readable and understandable from a standard perspective.
Now if we read the texts from a literary angle there is no problem at all: we are just dealing with alternative versions of a story. One (or none) may be historically correct (as to the timetable); all can't. If we want to take them all as historical and try to reconcile them into a consistent scenario we have to build a fifth story (as JosephMalik does with his week-long Passion, or as others like Annie Jaubert have done using the Jubilees calendar, as the "Wednesday crucifixionists" which snowbird refers to and which other pages of the above-mentioned site directly address, and so on). But then we do not read the Gospel stories anymore as the first readers/hearers (who had access to just one story, designed for them) did.
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oompa
can i get a cliff notes version of this...i dont even know what the issue is?.......oompa
sylvia...do you really think there was a friday or saturday back then...or that the calendar week could be perfect after 2000 years????..........
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JosephMalik
If we want to take them all as historical and try to reconcile them into a consistent scenario we have to build a fifth story (as JosephMalik does with his week-long Passion,
Narkissos,
Or another way to put this would be, if the shoe fits, wear it. You have your opinions, (not demonstrated) and I have mine which are demonstrated. Since the Gospels interleave so well why insist that they should not used that way in the future? It took great effort to accomplish such a task on their part. And many Gospel Parallels were written as a consequence demonstrating this. This would compensate for the lack of understanding of such events that would take place as time went on. Like the apostle Paul taught 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; So the resolving of this matter does not depend upon your comments or my comments but on each individuals own study of the matter. Now this does put to shame nearly all denominations and others denying it should the material be found truthful. But again: Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. With this in mind, I would not try to restrict anyone from doing such research on their own.
Joseph
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snowbird
sylvia...do you really think there was a friday or saturday back then...or that the calendar week could be perfect after 2000 years????..........
Oompa, there were sunsets and sunrises back then; the names of the days came later, thanks to Roman/Norse/Teutonic legends.
I believe that Jesus of Nazareth died on the day which would correspond to our Wednesday, perfect calendar week notwithstanding.
Sylvia
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snowbird
Thanks for that reference to Annie Jaubert, Narkissos.
I will have to obtain her book, The Date of the Last Supper.
Sylvia