Why is Jesus kept side stage ?

by iknowall558 178 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    Think about what Jesus himself said, if your child asks you for an egg, which of you - though evil - will give him a serpent. How much more so will your Father in Heaven give to those asking him good gifts and perfect presents.

    Accepting the Gift from God, Christ Jesus, will only ever bring you good things.

    I'm realising that the first step a person needs to take to recognise the need for Jesus is for them to fully acknowledge that they're a sinner. How many JWs think of themselves as sinners? To them sinners are adulterers and murderers. I don't think many JWs genuinely feel like they actually need Christ's sacrifice to forgive their sins and that because of those sins they're totally cut off from God. I mean, when they go to the memorial, they obviously believe they do not need the means to forgive sins, hence they pass them on.

    The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins. It's when we feel the Holy Spirit from God pouring into our hearts that we feel the crushing weight of the debt of our sins, how we're completely unworthy of ever standing before God. But just as quickly, the Spirit baptises us and raises us from our dead condition and give us a new Spirit that places us in a position where we're no longer condemned (Rom 8:1) and in that moment we're born again, we're given a new life before God, a life where our sins are made white by the blood of the Lamb.

    If you look at a piece of red clothing through a red filter, the clothing appears white. That's how our sin-stained lives are before God when we're in a relationship with Christ Jesus. He knew no sin, but he was made to become sin in order that we can be the righteousness of God. Receiving the Spirit of Christ (remember, the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father in Christ's name) means that we never again need to fear anything - Rom 8:15 "You did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him (the Spirit of Christ) we cry, "Abba, Father"." 1 John 4:4 tells us that he who is in us is greater than he who is in the world. The Holy Spirit lives within us, we become the temple within which he dwells, and he daily works in us to create a new heart, new desires, new ways of thinking.

    I definitely think you should "court" Jesus. I'd recommend reading Romans. If you can't stomach reading the whole letter, read just the 8th chapter. Verses 38 and 39 may help you.

    I also think praying to God about your concerns and doubts is useful. Explain to him in simple terms that you've been abused and battered and you're afraid of not matching up or of letting him down.

    Also, if you get the chance, John 9 is a great example of how Christ works, particularly when you get to verse 35.

    If you want to chat about this stuff further, PM me and I'll give you my email address.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Titus 2:13 says that paul considered Jesus as his God.

    2pet 1:1 says that peter condidered Jesus as his god and saviour.

    John 20 :28 says that Thomas called Jesus "The god of me" TO JESUS FACE!!!!! Did Jesus correct him? No. Fact.

    Isaiah 9:6 says he is a mighty god, (also calls jehovah mighty god in the next chapter)

    John 1:1 describes Jesus thus " the word was divine".

    I hate it when people through a lot of scriptures at me without quoting them. the god ones are usually taken out of context but lets look at these from hobo

    Firstly let me say it's refreshing to see someone quoting John 1:1 ina more correct way yes Jesus is divine becasue he is God's son his direct decendent he would be a lot like his father and in fact is called the image of his father. The problem arrises when people want to make him there God whatever the excuse they want to worship him rather than JEhovah as God. People range from those that try and make it like God has retired and made Jesus the new God to those who will say Jesus is YHWH all along and it's all a mystery why scriptures contradict this.

    Titus 2:13 (New International Version)

    13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

    I'm surprised you bring this one up it is not proof at all, becasue what people don't know is were commas go is purely at the descretion of the translator and also the 'and' itself denotes separate people in the original greek. take the comma out and that who scripture reads a lot differently.

    both this one and peter are ambiguous at best each transaltor translating to their own preference. Are these the best trinity can offer?

    if these type of scroptures can be proof then the overwheming amount that keep them separate must be proof too here's one just as an example

    John 1:3 (New International Version)

    3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

    the thomas one is an exclamation unqualified by anything in the passage. Then in the same chapter only a fews scriptures before john writes this

    John 20:17 (New International Version)

    17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

    would john have not qualified it if Jesus was God at this time which if you believe thomas's exclamation leter he is? this is the basic problem for trinity it takes scriptures out of context even on the chapters/letters they are written in and especially the theme of the bible to create the lie that is trinity.

    Never mind the worrd trinity isn't in the bible the whole thought of trinity is non-biblical the bible suggests no triunism at all.

    that many things can be called god the bible excepts...

    1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)

    5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    Isaiah 9:6 (New International Version)

    6 For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, [ a ] Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Isaiah himself doesn't call Jesus God just that he says that JEsus will be called by other mighty god God and the point is that almighty isn't used here

    and yet isaiah has no problem using it...

    Isaiah 5:15-17 (New International Version)

    15 So man will be brought low
    and mankind humbled,
    the eyes of the arrogant humbled.

    16 But the LORD Almighty will be exalted by his justice,
    and the holy God will show himself holy by his righteousness.

    17 Then sheep will graze as in their own pasture;
    lambs will feed [a] among the ruins of the rich.

    trinity is a fractured doctrine that denies the unity of the bible in it's conception.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    HI password have you read the the GReek scriptures? there are full of writers giving both praise to God and Jesus as separate beings and it is a fallacy that we must pick one or the other that is a Jesus worshipers thing. the Bible allows us to Have Jehovah as Almighty God and his son Jesus as our king and saviour, God's representative and the one through whom God's purpose is manifest this is the teaching of the bible.

    Jehovah's Witnesses call Jesus God's son as the bible does! are we to be condemned for saying what the bible says? It is Jesus worshipers that try and make us guilty for giving Jehovah praise instead of Jesus the bible does not teach this. I recommend you go back and read it.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    lol this following statement has no biblical back up.

    He is the god of Christians with God the father's full consent.

    instead the bible says this

    Matthew 17:5
    While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

    just out of interest I found the following scripture another one Jesus worshipers have to ignore they really must limit the bible for themselves.

    Revelation 1:6
    To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    Reniaa, firstly;

    Titus 2:13 (New International Version)

    13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

    Regardless of where the comma goes, this verse attributes the role of saviour to Christ. Yet, Isaiah says there is one Saviour, YHWH. Why the discrepancy.

    Let me address, in detail, this;

    HI password have you read the the GReek scriptures? there are full of writers giving both praise to God and Jesus as separate beings and it is a fallacy that we must pick one or the other that is a Jesus worshipers thing. the Bible allows us to Have Jehovah as Almighty God and his son Jesus as our king and saviour, God's representative and the one through whom God's purpose is manifest this is the teaching of the bible.

    Jehovah's Witnesses call Jesus God's son as the bible does! are we to be condemned for saying what the bible says? It is Jesus worshipers that try and make us guilty for giving Jehovah praise instead of Jesus the bible does not teach this. I recommend you go back and read it.

    Yes, I've read the Greek Scriptures. The one thing that jumped out at me is that Jehovah isn't mentioned. At all. Anywhere. All the praise, glory and honour goes to...Jesus. I've already posted a lengthy list of scriptures that show the importance Jesus had in the 1st C congregations. These Christians didn't pray to Jehovah. They prayed to Jesus. These Christians didn't gather in the name of Jehovah. They gathered in the name of Jesus. They didn't perform powerful miracles in the name of Jehovah. It was in the name of Jesus. And they PREACHED that salvation came, not through the name Jehovah, but through the name Jesus.

    What is so difficult in all of that for you to accept? You're not a Christian, it would seem.

    Do you have a son? If so, would you describe him of being of the same being as yourself, i.e. a human? Does God have a son? Would the Bible describe him as being of the same kind as God? Yes, it does. Isaiah 9:6, John 20:28 to name just two.

    Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

    Who did Stephen pray to when he was being stoned? It was his Lord and Saviour, Jesus.

    Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

    You use the term 'Jesus worshippers' as a pejorative. Yet, the angels in heaven are Jesus worshippers.

    Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

    Can you at least concede that YHWH is nowhere to be found in the Greek Scriptures? Can you at least concede that the apostle John wrote 3 weighty letters to the Christians in the 1st C and did not at any point use the name YHWH nor did he direct their attention to the name YHWH? Why did John not talk about Jehovah? Why did John talk extensively in his 3 letters about Jesus?

    Was Jesus wrong to say that he was to receive exactly the same honour that goes to the Father? Jesus is the Judge, the Bible tells us this, and he will judge mankind based on whether or not they accepted Jehovah? No. Him, Jesus Christ!

    In heaven all creatures worship Jesus Christ. Did you know that? Revelation 5:13-15. Who alone can accept and receive worship? God. So why do these perfect heavenly creatures worship Jesus Christ? It can only be if he is God.

    Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

    If Jesus Christ alone is the way, the truth and the life, if no other name under heaven has been given by which we can get salvation, why do you cling to much to the name Jehovah, exalting that name above every other?

    If Jesus Christ is salvation, who would dearly love to mislead mankind into thinking it lay with someone else?

    I recommend you go back and read the Greek Scriptures and take note of whether it is Jehovah who is to receive the praise and honour instead of Jesus.

  • JimmyPage
    JimmyPage

    Why is Jesus kept side stage?

    He's the understudy waiting to go on if God breaks his ankle.

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    BTW, Reniaa, why are you ducking my question about whether or not we should follow Jesus?

    Question for Reniaa re. who we should follow

  • iknowall558
    iknowall558

    @ lurk3r "lucifer is the "bringer of light"..............(2COR 11: 14.. Satan keeps transforming himselft into an angel of light.......

    WHAT DOES HE DO WITH THAT LIGHT ?

    (2 COR 4:4 ..he has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good

    about THE CHRIST, who is the image of God....MIGHT NOT SHINE THROUGH....

    The WTBS has blinded people to the truth of Jesus. The dont allow these scriptures to shine through but cover them over with their own "light". This "light" provided by them keeps us in the "dark" concerning Jesus. "Is is therefore nothing great if his ministers keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works...2 Cor 11 : 15.

    Iknowall just made reference to the " Brilliance of light " - and i think it is safe to assume he is talking about Jesus.

    JOHN 1:6 - 9 "There arose a man that was sent forth as a representative of God: his name was John. This man came for a witness, order to bear witness about the LIGHT, that people of all sorts might believe through him. HE was not that light, but he was meant to bear witness about that light. The TRUE LIGHT that gives light to every sort of man was about to come into the world......"

    JOHN 8 :12 "Therefore, Jesus spoke again to them saying "I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life."

    YES , JESUS IS THE TRUE LIGHT.

    Isn't it true that for light to have the best effect it needs to be lifted up high...? Matt 5 :14 You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when situated.... ON A MOUNTAIN. Withing the WTS , Jesus has been situated on a MOLE HILL.

    This is why I said what I said to PP. It is blindingly obvious from scripture who Jesus really is.

    Pass has submitted some very good posts, most of them heaving with scriptures. With all the years of indoctrination within the JW org it can be very difficult to put Jesus in a position that you're not used to him being in. The scriptures bear witness about him, and his followers bore witness about him.... as pass said .....

    " If we want to get to God, we need to go through Jesus, and to go through Jesus we need to recognise his place - not putting him off to the side or relegating him to a position lower than he is intended it to be.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Sorry pasword missed it.

    As far as I have always been taught Jehovah's witnesses follow Jesus as king and priest and ruler and yes they have leaders on earth put there allowed by Jesus to be leaders until he returns but they have the bible and the holy spirit for guidance. this is true for all christians were is the issue?

    Hebrews 13:7
    Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

    None of this changes that there is only one God Jehovah! ( You may not like that personal name is absent in greek scripture as far as we know but the concept of almighty God who isn't Jesus is there without doubt!

    John 17:3 (New International Version)

    3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    that Jesus is his son and our King.

    Matthew 27:11
    Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.

    that the chosen ones the first fruits will be heirs with Jesus.

    Romans 8:17
    Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    God put Jesus on his right hand is the bible lying here?

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