How Public Talks are Done by some Congregations

by Amazing 35 Replies latest jw friends

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  passwordprotected

  @ willyloman - we had the same outline delivered 3 times in 2 months in our old cong. It was interesting, however, that no one seemed to pick up on it as each speaker delivered it significantly differently from the others.

  I also started turning up with different outlines than the ones assigned; you get sick of giving the same talk over and over and over again. On one occasion I was assigned to go to Rutherglen Congregation and I'd been out all day Saturday watching Scotland play Lithuania at Hampden Park, then we'd had friends over very late that night and I hadn't got the chance to properly rehearse the talk (which I always left to the Saturday afternoon before I was due to give it). I'd only had about 4 hours sleep, so I just took an outline I knew inside out and delivered that instead.
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  Scott77

  "If a brother gave a particularly bad talk, I would mark it my notes column.. I did follow the outline while

  listening to the talks...not to be overly critical, but because I have ADD and it helped me focus.....

  The so-called D and F speakers were counseled by myself, and/or the TMS overseer or the PO after the meeting.

  Often they did not stay for hospitality (aka lunch)."

  SnakesInTheTower

  I think this action as described above was certainly unfair to the speaker involved and to large extent, it showed lack of appreciation for the voluntary effort the speaker did put in including travel to present it. But thanks anyway for sharing. Its great to know this.
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  passwordprotected

  Great point, Scott77
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  WTWizard

  Nice to know that, if I ever had to give a talk in a congregation I did not like, all I would have to do is give a talk about all the ways that the Bible itself lies or that the Washtowel does not abide by it. That would be the last time I would ever have to give a talk there--especially if it was a boring talk or one that I was not suited to give.
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  Amazing

  Willyloman and Snakes: Your points are quite correct ... things often did not go as planned. And, the congregations suffered sub-standard speakers more oftehn than not. Also, the Society use to love really good speakers, but changed this in the 1980s to droning speakers. Our CO once told us that the Society wanted less dynamic speakers so that it prevented someone from becoming popular and drawing away disciples after themselves, causing divisions and apostacy.

  Scott77: You are correct that the system was not fair to the poorer speakers. They do many times work hard and all Elders "volunteer" in most cases to give such talks. It is a badge of honor to be invited to speak outside the local KH. In most cases, it was not necessary to 'counsel' speakers, as most were A, B or C speakers. They often received lunch from the local Elders. Those 'counseled' took it well, and the counsel was normally not too harsh. But the F speakers were unfairly not counseled, just told that they would not be invited back ... and that was not fair to them. But then the whole JW system is packed with foolish and unfair things.
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  SnakesInTheTower

  scott77.... no, what was unfair was the other body of elders not having the cojunes enough to not send out $hitty speakers. some brothers may have been good or excellent speakers at one time but after awhile you have to give them assignments that suit their remaining talents and not embarrass them or make others uncomfortable.

  I have to say about the so-called grading system... it was never because they inserted apostate stuff... some times they strayed so far off the outline that they were not even giving it... they were just making up their own like the old days.....

  the talk would have had to be absolutely the worse most awful experience to pull a brother into the back room immediately. I know I only had to do it once in 5 years as an elder. Our PO did it once or twice. A few other times we had to call the PO because we knew if we talked to the brother personally it would go badly. Usually we just did not invite them back again.

  Problem was when the other congos talk coordinator was a bad speaker... it was tricky getting around that. One brother that was talk coordinator that we didnt want kept insisting that we schedule him or he wouldnt send anyone else from his congo. And we really wanted some of his other speakers. So we scheduled him during the Circuit Assembly or SAD and then called about a month before (to allow plenty of notice) and told him we had "inadvertently" scheduled him then...and I would profusely apologize.... we would get back on rescheduling him.... it worked... devious but necessary. Better than listening to him drone on and on.

  We had some speakers who were so bad that if the congo heard a bad speaker was coming, they had the memory of an elephant... that Sunday would be a lot of empty chairs.

  Snakes ()
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  SnakesInTheTower

  My question is...if you work for an employer, and you do a bad job....does the boss let you keep doing a bad job or reward you ....or do you get brought in and talked with and given instruction on how to do a better job?

  Yes, the speakers were volunteers and often came long distances. And that is why they are given much more latitude. We would first find out if there was something wrong...were they sick, kids sick, something causing them distress. If that was the case, we would certainly back off and chalk it up to a bad day...and call the PO to be certain that was all it was... or if the speaker had previously been a good speaker, we would try to figure out if it was a one time bad talk, the outline itself may not have suited them... Meetings were hard enough to attend without forcing people to listen to (then) 45 minutes of painful delivery.

  We had one elderly faithful brother in the circuit that had the most grating voice imaginable...hard to listen to. Stroke or something years earlier. He rarely gave outbound talks. I begged him (and his coordinator) to come because though his voice was grating, if you listened carefully, he was by any standard (not just JW) an excellent teacher. I put the word out during the week prior that the brother had a bad voice but was an excellent teacher... and everyone was glad he came.

  It wasn't as if we were beating these brothers or being unfair.

  Snakes ()
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  minimus

  I was the PT Coordinator for most of the time I was a MS or elder.

  We, mostly me, would invite almost only very good speakers. I was one of the most frequently requested speakers and for a time, I was out too much and talked to by the other elders.

  One time I gave a talk and an elder had his outline right out there, which to me was a bit much. He approached me afterward to ask why I added additional info not contained in THAT outline. I pointed out that I covered the ENTIRE outline and I added my examples or illustrations to make the points easier to comprehend. He didn't like the answer. He was an oldtime PO. So I looked at him and told him if he didn't like my talks, I simply wouldn't come back. He told his elders and one of them called me directly and apologized for the PO's behavior, saying merely that he's just like that.

  About a year later, I was invited to give a talk and right afterward the PO was one of the first in the line to tell me how wondeful my talk was. And the funny thing was I purposely added more info and took a few parts of the outline that I didn't like out.
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  Amazing

  Minimus,

  About a year later, I was invited to give a talk and right afterward the PO was one of the first in the line to tell me how wondeful my talk was. And the funny thing was I purposely added more info and took a few parts of the outline that I didn't like out.

  You and I must be from about the same time frame in the organization. I recall a time when adding in material and eliminating material was even encouraged ... it was called making the material your own, personalizing it, so that it flowed more naturally. But, by the mid-1980s, with the apostate scare, some stickler POs and others, insisted on close adherance to outlines as you experienced.

  I gave the Memorial talk one time (because I professed to be of the Anointed, and was an Elder). I added in material to help JWs understand how JW Anointed "know" (believe) that they are Anointed (I have several past postings on this topic). Afterwards, the School Overseer cornered me about introducing 'apostate' material and not correctly quoting the Watchtower Society. So, I took him to the library and pulled out the Watchtower article I quoted, and he read it, fully stunned, as it was not a refulted or changed dogma. It is still applicable today. The article explained how the Anointed 'know' they are such in a way that the average JW can understand and accept ... as it is the only article of its kind I could ever find ... and if more JWs had read the article, there would be at least 100,000 or more Anointed today, which would begin to seriously challenge the Watchtower theory on the limitation to only 144,000. The School Overseer just stood there, speechless, and never challenged again.
• 

  sir82

  We then used an A, B C D, of F grade system.

  About 2 or 3 years ago there was a BOE letter. The PO (or COTBOE as he is known now), the TMS overseer, and the "auxiliary counselor" (the one who counsels elders & MS on their school parts) were supposed to grade every elder in the congregation on an A, B, C scale and forward the information to the CO. This would help him to determine who should be used for Circuit & District Assembly parts.

  "A was for "excellent", "B" for "above average", and "C" was for average. There was no provision in the letter for rating "below average" speakers - the lowest you could get was a "C".

  I immediately thought of Lake Wobegon, where "all of the children are above average".

  Quite frankly, of the hundreds of elders I've heard speak, I'd rate about 20% as "F", 40% as "D", 25% as "C", 13% as "B", and 2% as "A". Roughly the same ratio holds for speakers at the assemblies as well.