This is very boring and redundant and no fun at all.
Reniaa Writes:
"I still stand by the point that with both Oral Sex and Anal Sex a woman may quite rightly want to refuse because they both can go beyond what she would want to do and be comfortable with and in fact a man may feel the same."
**** Nobody that I know of is disputing that point of view Reniaa. Surely you understand this. It IS your right (and anybody else's) that chooses to refuse to engage in specific sexual practices for their own conscientious, personal reasons. Who said, anywhere on this thread, that a person, individually, does not have the right to refuse oral or anal sex? Yet this is what you are now implying.
What we ARE telling you is that THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ITSELF is the one that condemns such specific practices as oral and anal sex. It is NOT a matter of conscience when it comes to these things Reniaa. They are forbidden, as the posted Watchtower Society quotes have clearly shown you. Can you read Reniaa? There is no spin you can use on this fact.
I don't think anybody here has a problem if you tell hubby, "thanks but no thanks", to these sexual practices for whatever reason you choose not. What we DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH is you trying to tell us that Watchtower ALLOWS these practices and considers these things as, 'okay to do', if both marriage mates wish to and consent to doing them.
That would be an outright falsehood Reniaa. Read all these comments from so many that were once JW's. Is everybody lying?
Can you open your mind to the truth even if it means you are wrong?
The quotes are all over this thread proving not only are such practices as oral and anal sex not allowed, but are considered and labeled as "perverted sexual practices" by Watchtower. And, if one continues such activity and or advocates those practices, they will in fact be disfellowshipped for it.
A far cry from these things being considered a personal choice by Watchtower, Reniaa.
Reniaa then says:
" Like I said the inference is that these are considered wrong from being done while unmarried which is biblically correct the bible does not advocate sex between unmarried couples at all it is quite clear on that."
**** Reniaa, either you are flat-out dishonest or just plain lack the intellectual capacity to understand the english language in printed form. You should be embarrassed to write the above. You obviously are in some kind of major denial and perhaps in need of professional help.
At least you are here and getting the FACTS now. More than we can say for most JW's today.
How can you possibly say that those articles refer SOLELY to, "unmarried couples", Reniaa?
Yet that is exactly what you just wrote.
This is just plain laughably sorry and foolish nonsense.
Here Reniaa, I will make sure you can see the words that EMPHASIZE the fact that these Watchtower articles apply to MARRIED COUPLES.
Just make sure your glasses are on Reniaa... (though I'll try to make it easy for you).
From the 83 Watchtower Article:
"However, if it becomes known that a member of the congregation is PRACTICING or openly advocating perverted sex relations within the marriage bond , that one certainly would not be irreprehensible, and so would not be acceptable for special privileges, such as serving as an elder, a ministerial servant or a pioneer. Such practice and advocacy could even lead to expulsion from the congregation."
**** What part of "within the mariage bond" can you not quite see yet Reniaa. But there it is in black and white. I hope you can see it good.
So now what?
Let's continue Reniaa. I want to be sure you see these articles are referring to married couples:
From Kingdom Ministry School Textbook (1981) p.151: "Sexual Conduct concerning the marriage bed , individuals can, however, be advised that in their intimate relations, as in all other aspects of Christian life, they need to have a hatred for all perverted practices including homosexuality, bestiality, oral sex and the like (Lev. 18:22,23; Ps. 97:10; Amos 5:15; Rom. 12:9; Eph. 5:3,10-12; Col. 3:5,6) Persons should be urged to act in such a way as to leave them with a clean conscience, and t he marriage bed undefiled . (Heb. 13:4)" **** Are you getting the picture now Reniaa? Are your reading glasses on Reniaa? Still think this refers to only, "unmarried couples", Reniaa? Let's do another one for ya: From the "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock", (Elders Manual) , p.142 Each one should have a hatred for all perverted sexual practices. (Lev. 18:22, 23; Ps. 97:10; Amos 5:15; Rom. 12:9; Eph. 5:3, 10-12; Col. 3:5, 6). Persons should be urged to act in such a way as to maintain a clean conscience, and the marriage bed should be undefiled . (Heb. 13 :4; w83 3/15 pp. 27-31). While perverted practices are wrong, if within a marriage one is involved or has been involved in such, it does not mean that he or she would necessarily lose service privileges. If such conduct becomes known to the elders, they would need to consider: Is the practice recent or ongoing, or is it something that occurred in the past and is definitely conquered? Is the individual promoting such conduct as a proper life-style? Is his attitude one of remorse? If he is sincerely repentant and the situation is not generally known, it may not be necessary to remove privileges of service. (NOW NOTICE THIS NEXT SENTENCE) (((Such practice and advocacy could even lead to expulsion from the congregation. Why?))) See The Watchtower of November 15, 1979, pages 31 and 32; also, September 15, 1980, page 31. This is an amplification and ((((adjustment)))) in understanding of what appears in The Watchtower of November 15, 1974, pages 703-704, and of February 15, 1978, pages 30-32. Those who acted on the basis of the knowledge they had at the time are not to be criticized. Nor would this affect the standing of a person who in the past believed that a mates perverted sexual conduct within marriage amounted to porneia and, hence, obtained a divorce and is now remarried. (End of article.) Now Reniaa, you said you believed these prohibitions against oral and anal sex had to do with "unmarried couples". I'll just re-quote your exact words, (in case you forgot again)
Reniaa said:... "Like I said the inference is that these are considered wrong from being done while unmarried which is biblically correct the bible does not advocate sex between unmarried couples at all it is quite clear on that."
**** So we have three direct Watchtower quotes and all three directly state, "the marriage bed, "the marriage bond", and, "within a marriage". And all contradict Reniaa's sorry, "defend JW's at all costs" , nonsense. There is nothing else to prove. Case closed. You get to live with it now. Reniaa this has been very boring to keep SPANKING you here. If you still don't get it by now then I'd say you are brainwashed beyond hope or a masochist that loves to get SPANKED and embarrassed. E ating crow is usually not a good thing to do reniaa. It's all IN PRINT. And then go tell your elders how you feel and see what they say. My sincere belief is that your posting here, just like this thread, is helping EX-JW's more than you can ever know. Have agood one Reniaa. And don't forget about all those other times I tried to catch you. Maybe one day you'll answer up rather than doing the fast rabbit running away deal again and again. All the best, Vinny