Need advice, they are trying to suck me in!

by Searchinggal 49 Replies latest jw friends

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  Searchinggal

  I am so happy to have found you all, you are helping me with my resolve. I guess, because of being best friends for so long, I continue to try to "fix it", I now know it is futile. I have send off an emai to them with my thoughts on Michael and Jesus. Which I know they will refute in some way and there would be more debates. I will have to say "I must stop my study, as I am not in agreement, with many of the WT teachings" They will respond "What are they lets talk more about them" But honestly, it is exhausting to talk to them, I can't believe the amount of energy they put into their Bible studies, hours and hours each week. And the energy to save me. I know that their children/grandchildren will no longer be allowed to play with mine. One of their children is marrying an elder, I have met him and what a puffed up superior acting man he is, I don't think he ever has liked me. As I ask too many questions, I have even heard him say "Do you know who you are talking to?" pointing his finger at one of the younger women.....yikes! Everyone hung their heads like little children, as I sat in amazement. I feel this is a fear based religion, I want no part of it.

  Thanks again for your help, I will let you know what happens, I think it might happen today.
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  worldtraveller

  I once confided in an individual who started to "coach" me in his beliefs. After a few years, I started to work with this individual for about 2 years. I began to find flaws is his logic by doing simple research. I questioned him on what I found and suddenly the calls diminished to zero and he is in debt to me for almost 500 bucks. No more calls to me with a debt owing, and now I will be going to a debt collector. They are a waste of a so called "friendship" . Do yourself a favour and move on right away. They are not their friend, they are your controller and mind manipulator.
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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  @searchinggal: You're allowing them to dictate the rules of the discussion. You said they asked you to prove the Jesus is not Michael. They said you have to prove it with a scripture. It should be the other way around--they are the ones asserting that Jesus is Michael (and there is no scripture that states this--even in the JW Bible). So they should be obligated to prove to you that he is Michael.

  In conversations like this, it's easy to bounce from point to point and no progress is made. There are lots and lots of weak spots in JW theology. It looks like you already picked one: Jesus == Michael.

  Everyone on here has his/her own issues with JW/WT theology. One of mine is false prophecy. JWs have a long, illustrious trail of false prophecy. They try to rationalize it, but the undeniable fact is that they have predicted the end many, many times, and have always been wrong. ALWAYS! Is the God that they worship so incompetent that he cannot adequately communicate to his one true people? Or could it be that the WT/JWs are just like every other religion...making it up as they go along with no special guidance from God at all?

  There are many scriptures in the Old and New Testaments condemning false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 gives a clear definition of a false prophet (one who foretells something in God's name and is wrong). In Matthew 7:15-23 (a set of verses that JWs love), Jesus warns against false prophets. In Matt 24:23-24 (which the JWs believe is being fulfilled right now), Jesus warns against false prophets. Luke 21:8 says not to follow those who say that "the due time has approached." Haven't JWs been saying that for 130 years?

  Also 1 John 4:1 tells Christians not to believe every inspired expression, but to test it to see if it originates with God. Does this fit with the JW practice of following everything its leaders tell thim--even if they don't understand or agree with it?
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  BabaYaga

  Searching Gal, you have come to the right place and I am so glad you did! I see wonderful advice on your thread already, but just glossing over some of the posts, I have seen no one recommend one of the Steven Hassan books yet... I highly recommend his "Combatting Mind Control". He was a member of a cult himself and has since helped hundreds (if not thousands) of cult members find their own minds.

  http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/books/

  Love,
  Baba.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Welcome S.Gal! You can either walk away and write them off, or you can plague them with the really hard questions.

  I know that their children/grandchildren will no longer be allowed to play with mine.

  Has the blood issue come up? Why do the JWs use an ancient law on butchering animals to allowencourage children (and adults) to die unnecessarily? Why do they allow the JW conscience to accept any and all fractions from donated blood, but they won't allow whole or "major components" to be infused? Do THEY have scriptures to back this up? Or are they just going to use the Noachian and Mosaic restrictions on eating the blood of DEAD animals? Or the "Governing Body" restriction? Both notions, and more, have been well refuted on this forum.

  I assume you have no family that are JWs already. You realize you will have to sacrifice your relationship with them if you join the cult. No more family birthday parties... because somebody's head might get chopped off. [gag]

  Ironic that they would bring up Satan. Their history of false prophecy would make it clear to any "right-hearted individual" that they are part of "Satan's system".

  Again, welcome, and good luck!

  B the X
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  Quirky1

  Call off the BS immediately. She will either still be your freind or she won't. Hopefully she won't let it go to that and if she is a true freind she won't.
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  parakeet

  searchinggal: But honestly, it is exhausting to talk to them, I can't believe the amount of energy they put into their Bible studies, hours and hours each week. And the energy to save me.

  They're manipulating you in the position they like best, on the defensive, because they know how to flick to the "right" scripture on demand. Whenever I meet anyone -- dub, mormon, etc. -- who is intent on drawing me into a religious debate, I simply tell them that I don't discuss religion or politics. Don't be surprised if she drops you as a friend. The WTS mind control methods work very well, even to the point of dub parents' letting their innocent children die when a blood transfusion could have saved them.

  BTW, the "energy" they're putting into "saving" you is being meticulously clocked and reported to the local elders, who send the info to the WTS headquarters, so they can brag about how "zealous" dubs are their "life-saving" work. Dubs like to rack up the hours on their field service (that's you) reports -- the more hours, the better their standing with Jehovah and their chances of surviving Armageddon (an illusion cooked up by the WTS). They are looking out for number one, believe me. If they could convert you, that's just gravy.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Further on Parakeet's line... They really aren't putting that much energy or time into "Bible" studies. It's just repeating what they get told at the meetings and in the litteratrash. They can continually repeat their same arguments and use the same dismissals for any question you would raise.

  It's really easy for them, particularly if they tag-team you, to make you think they are brilliant. But, as mentioned, it's typical cult tactics. It'll wear down your defenses without really proving "the truth". "It's in the Watchtower, so it's from God!" "Where else would you go?" "Satan controls everything else."

  They are draining YOU of your time and energy to wear you down to accept their "Bible teachings"... aka "brainwashing".

  Wow! With friends like that, who needs enemas?

  B the X
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  Chalam

  Hi searchinggal,

  I think this speaks for itself.

  2 John 1:7-11 (New International Version)

  7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

  JWs do not acknowledge that Jesus raised to life in a physical body but as a "spirit creature". They teach that the WT is the advocate before the Father for those with an "earthly hope", not Jesus and thus are anti or 'in the place of' Christ.

  I have no problem inviting JWs into my home and talking with them. However, I do not receive their teaching, I just tell what the bible says.

  Luke 12:11-13 (New International Version)

  11 "When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  Mrs. Fiorini

  Sorry to hear your sad story. I know your friend means well and I'm sure she cares for you. But she will be discouraged from being your friend if you don't join her religion. When I was a JW I had friends who weren't. When my JW friends found out, they pressured me to get rid of the "bad association". Sadly, I did, thinking I was doing the right thing. Since then, I have learned that cults operate that way.

  You might try asking your friend if she thinks that God will kill you if you don't join her religion. It may make her think. That was one of the things that always bothered me as a JW. I knew there were many good people who would never join that religion, yet the official teaching is that God will execute everyone who doesn't.

  You could also ask her what made her rejoin after so many years out, and what made her leave in the first place. That kind of self-reflection is important for anyone who is involved with a manipulitive organization such as the Watchtower Society.

  Best wishes to you.