the advantage of emailing from the freeminds website is that it adds authority and they may browse to other articles
the disadvantage is that its clearly an apostate site.
No One Should Be Made to Choose ..LIES from July 09 Awake
by Hopscotch 216 Replies latest watchtower bible
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steve2
The Witnesses' amazing capacity to side-step questions about double standards and to place the most positive spin on what they do to members who leave is legendary. In my opinion, the Awake article at the centre of this thread is öld"PR stuff, spiced up a bit. Those of us who were raised in JW households in the 1960s well remember the sweetly-reasoned chapter in the egregiously misnamed "Truth" book. From memory, the chapter was entitled, Is It Wrong To Examine Your Religion?
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passwordprotected
@ steve2 - and that article helped people do just that! Hence my current optimism.
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drew sagan
Please PP, they are not being taught that at all! Your dogmatic assertions are leaving you precious little wiggle room and you will only wind up looking a little foolish. I accept that some individuals may press this issue enough to make a doubting JW think a little bit harder - and I rejoice in that along with you PP. But the scale of change is not - as you have asserted, massive.
I agree.
This is not a "massive" change, in fact i would argue that it implies no change whatsoever. The last post I made describes exactly how the Watchtowers wording in the article is completely ambiguous. It may imply a universal application but we all know that it is in no way describing some official policy.
It's a contradiction for sure, but they have done this same sort of thing before (albeit in less direct ways). The article never actually defines in a comprehensive way what certain key phrases exactly mean (e.g. What does it mean that "nobody should be forced" or "made to choose"? What are some examples?) Instead the interpretation is left to the reader. Different readers will take different opinions. The article is created in such a way so as to get a general point across to those they want to influence (jws and potential jws) while at the same time ignoring complex situations that those they don't care about (ex-jws and others critical of the group) want details on.
I'm sure that if put on the spot the Watchtower author would find a way to get around the contradiction, but that actually brings up an even more important point. The men who write this stuff will never be "put on the spot". They hold power, and like all people who hold power they simply assert what they like and ignore the details.
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sir82
Instead the interpretation is left to the reader. Different readers will take different opinions.
That's exactly the point. WT articles are purposely written in such a way that "the man on the street" would arrive at a completely different conclusion than the thoroughly indoctrinated JW.
E.g. the QFR on voting from about 10 or so years ago. As I recall, it said something like "in lands where voting is mandatory, a JW may go to the polling place and do what his conscience tells him".
Someone unfamiliar with the JW mindset would think "hey, that sounds reasonable - they're telling people to vote their conscience".
To a veteran JW, of course, the interpretation is "Don't you dare vote! Your bible-trained conscience knows it is wrong, Wrong, WRONG! Just ruin your ballot so the vote isn't counted."
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undercover
WT articles are purposely written in such a way that "the man on the street" would arrive at a completely different conclusion than the thoroughly indoctrinated JW.
That's why I agree that this isn't a 'massive' change or statement because the average zombie-dub is going to read into this the way the Society wants them to while the rest of us see the problems with it.
But, I do think that they tripped up in wording it so plainly, in that some DFd, DAd or just plain faded ex-JWs might be able to reason with family members who already bend the rules of shunning and show them that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander. Anything less is hypocritical.
It's charging them with hypocrisy, I think, that could cause some otherwise well-meaning JWs to take note. When I was still active, it stung when someone pointed out any hypocrisy of the Society. I was fully indoctrinated for a time into believing it was the truth, God doesn't lie and the Bible is the absolute Word of God, thus making hypocrisy almost impossible. Once you break that barrier, it might be possible to expand on the hypocrisy of the Society in other areas.
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iknowall558
Basically what's being put forward from Awake is ..................................... " We support the freedom of Non JWs to convert to the JW Faith ! "
What's being put forward from the Watchtower is...................................... " We don't support the freedom of JWs to leave the JW Faith ! "
This is decption. It's being "double tongued".....for which , incidentally , you cannot qualify to be an elder or servant. ( 1st tim 3 : 8 ).
They are saying they have one set of feelings on an issue.......but are acting according to the influence of another.
They sure giving the god Janus a run for his money in the 'two faces' stake.
It makes me sick ! They are talking about FREEDOM of choice. They are NOT qualified to talk about that to anyone. They are telling the PUBLIC that this freedom to chose is their right, yet they are telling the MEMBERSHIP the opposite ! It's no wonder they have isolated the Study articles in the WT for the consumption of those already brainwashed.
Passwords blog is excellent.....
If you cannot change your mind, your beliefs or the religious community that you associate with then you are NOT free !
They are saying that faith should be with freedom of conscience, that no faith should be under compulsion....sounds good, but.... where anyone is Forced to be a Hindu, then they are not a Hindu. Where anyone is forced to be a Muslim, then they are not a Muslim, and where anyone is forced to be, or remain, a JW, then they are not a JW.
Religion is not about outward compliance, but is about BELIEF, and what is in your heart. (Rom 10 : 10 ) "For with the HEART one exercises faith."
When the org. are teaching its members that conversion away from THEM will bring punishement / disfellowshipping then they are going against their sympathetic words of support printed in the Awake. In other words they are showing themselves to a big fat liar! With this threat, can they be sure that the membership's obedience is purely a matter of conscience....from belief in their heart. Or is it from fear of punishmen ? . If it's the latter, then their faith is a sham !
It then implies that the org. perhaps doesn't have enough to compete for the hearts and minds of its own.
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choosing life
I think they may say that ex-jws are free to leave the religion, therefore not forced to believe. On the other hand, those relatives in good standing as jws are also free to limit their association with those that "choose to leave Jehovah".
It's always worth a try to show someone the hypocrisy of the religion, but most won't until something in their life softens them up a bit, allowing them the freedom to question.
I can't see them loosening up their rules on shunning as it is way too important to preserve the cult.
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restrangled
So many have covered this eloquently, but I'd like to put my spin on it, a 3rd generation..... xjw.
Awake articles are considered fluff, for anyone and everyone.. especially inside the JW's.
Awake articles are meant to possibly add to your "college education" within the JW fold (Hardee har har har)
No doctrines or rules are to be derived from any articles in the Awake magazine by JW's.
The only articles that explain their doctrines and beliefs to be followed, are Watchtower STUDY articles. Thats why they now have the in and outside versions. Never needed before,....I think they were hoping to avoid internet exposure. (Idiots!)
Disfellowshipping and shunning is the ultimate control, especially for the old timers. It's their only power. Dates and ideas have been destroyed, but by God, destruction of relationships and families still holds power over so many.
At my Mom's service meeting last week, they just went over the importance of shunning disfellowshipped family members. When I talked to her she had that "witness sound" to her voice, not against me but about her brother associating with his own df'd kids and grand kids. It's amazing how nasty this religion makes people.
Just my take.
r.
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Hopscotch
boyzone - great result. The thing is that those workmates may also talk about this to their friends and relatives - so more find out about it. Good on you for linking passwordprotected's blog to the BBC christian message board.
passwordprotected - fantastic blog
isaacaustin - great work with the emails. Lets hope some of them get read.
besty - as you say if it helps just one JW wake up and get out then that is a fantastic outcome.
Hopscotch